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Good morning!
>I don’t usually use the outside arm for the tandem turn but I see the value here as a stronger connection to get the dog to pass by the prop on the advanced portion>
You can start with both arms to get the behavior, then fade out the outside arm if you like! Lots of folks use a dog-side arm and shoulder position to get these and to also get the threadle wraps. It is handler preference 🙂
>….oye does he love his prop which is a good thing. I wasn’t sure what to do about him just going to the prop when he wasn’t sent there…?>
Yes, he loves his prop! But his questions had more to do with your mechanics, part of which had to do with the session length – 6 minutes is a long time and also, you didn’t give yourself a break to reset your mechanics 🙂 So what was happening was as you were adding the prop to both the lap and tandem later in the session, the behavior was getting blurry for him (too much all in one session, he was like “which is it?”) and your mechanics were blurry because you were also trying to switch gears without planning it as well. So he was offering a lot of behavior and was getting a little confused.
When he was going to the prop, it was mainly because you were right next to it and the start cookie was also very close, so the mechanics of the cue were not clearly visible in time. And you were freestyling the cues, combining some, so it was hard to read :). That is why the break between each session will really help you both!
So ideally, set your timer to 2 minutes 🙂 Do one cue – lap turns, for example). Then take a break, let him take a break, and plan your mechanics for the next session (planning without him also working). Then set the timer for another 90 seconds or 2 minutes… then add the prop.
Then leave it alone overnight to let his (and your) brains wire in the mechanics. And do the other cues on a different day 🙂
For the lap turns where you are facing him, moving your hand slowly worked the best! And for the tandem, slowing down your motion as he is arriving at your hands also prepared him for the turn really well.
You can ‘loop’ right back into the next rep but throwing the reward even further, so it becomes the next start cookie. Be sure to throw it far enough that you have a moment to reset.
And when adding the prop, you can add it further away laterally, so it is easier to draw him past it – but throwing the start cookie further on those too will give you more time to set up your mechanics to draw him past it. And if he gets to the prop and not your hands? No worries, it was probably late mechanics, so you can reset by throwing a start cookie again and clarifying the mechanics. As you said, he is really good at doing the turns when he sees the cues.
>I wish I had one of those very short tunnels. Where did you get yours?>
I think it is a Galican! Someone gave it to me, so I will ask where they got it.
Nice work here!
Tracy
Good morning!
I totally recognize that place LOL!!
Thank you for the video of the zoomies with the toy! I think two things are happening:
– The ring at LU is huge and distracting: so much to look at! So many smells!!
– Tugging is not that high on the hierarchy of motivators/rewards (not yet) especially when good is around.
So in the big new environments, she generally comes towards you but also part of her brain is exploring the environment and not able to come in to tug. And the pressure of trying to get her to tug in such a challenging environment is causing her to move *more*, not less.
Now compare to the videos you got with the food reward: she came right to the food. Food is high up on the list of motivators/rewards 🙂
So what to do? A couple of ideas!
For now, bearing in mind that she is only 5 months old – keep the food and toy play separate, both from each other and in terms of distraction level.
In the more challenging environments, like the big ring at LU, use food 🙂 That will be very motivating to help her tune out distractions that are present in that ring.
Separately, play silly toy games with no food present. For example, at LU, you can have her on the mats, on leash, chasing the toy as you swing it around to let her chase it. That narrows the playing field by giving her fewer distractions to have to process (stuff in the environment and food and you running). And you can do it at the front of the turf ring at LU – but still on leash or dragging the leash, without food present, and just letting her chase the toy and be generally silly.
As the toy play moves up the hierarchy of valuable reinforcement, we can use it more and more in training. But for now, keep it separate as a fun game without having to go back and forth to food quite yet (or tugging in big distracting areas.)
Looking at the prop game videos: Holy cow that is some impressive distance! She knows that the prop is what you want her to hit and the distance on the first video was great. That was a left turn. On the second video, you were sending to a right turn and that was MUCH harder for her – I am guessing she is a lefty 🙂 because when was unable to get the behavior to the right, she sent herself to the prop and did a left turn twice. She did get a right turn at the end, but she was also considering grabbing the prop… so that is really good communication!
She was basically saying that she can do the bigger distances when turning to her left… but needs to be closer for now to figure out the right turns. That is good info! So the next session can have the distance challenges and maybe some countermotion when sending to a left turn (like on the first video). When you change sides, get closer to the prop (maybe 3 feet away) for the right turns, so she can work out the harder mechanics successfully.
Great job on these! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
>seeing progress with understanding what opinionated Jazz is trying to tell me >
I am so glad you are having fun! I tell myself every day that behavior is communication… even if I don’t understand what is being communicated 😂 But as long as we humans keep trying to understand, our pups are happy to keep communicating and that is when the teamwork really blossoms.
>My boy is a little too big to fly in the cabin and I won’t fly him in cargo >
I totally understand! Flying dogs has really gotten so much harder in recent years. I used to fly my 19 lb dog in cabin all the time, no problem. There is no way I would do it now! And flying in cargo? Yeah, that really worries me nowadays too, so I won’t be doing big travel with my large dogs. I wish there was an easier way!
Looking at the parallel path and rear crosses – good job switching to the get it marker! She was really starting to fly!
Adding the rear crosses –
>Especially when turning to the left she turns into me, making a tight loop before heading in the right direction. Is this because I’m crossing too late?>
Yes, a tiny bit late – the first couple were just a step late, she was already turning the original direction – and also, she was totally not expecting you to appear on the other side LOL!
>she only grabbed the prop once and only took one lap around the yard before giving it up.>
Behavior is communication LOL 😂😝😆🤪
The prop victory lap at :46 might have just been that we are changing the picture and she needed a moment to regulate, clear her head, and decompress. A change in the game and something unexpected can certainly activate her physiology in a way that she feels the need to try to balance it… and a way that many dogs balance it is with high energy behavior like running around. It is a form of decompression and that is great! What you can do, though, is direct the decompression into forms that do not involve running around with the prop 🙂 It might take some experimenting to see how different things help her, but decompressions can range from treat scatters in the turf so she sniffs around for 30 seconds or so, to giving her a wild tug session, to handing over the tug and telling her she can take the toy for a run 🙂
I build in these decompressions right into the session (rather than wait til the end) when we are challenging the pup! It is really cool to see the regulation happen. More on decompression coming later in the class 🙂
After the run around with the prop, she was better able to process the RC info and also, you were earlier on most of the reps after :58! Yay! You can see that at 1:00, 1:02, and the last rep you were cleary on the new side when she was still a stride or two away from hitting the prop, so she found the new side really well. SUPER!!!
For the next session, you can start further from the prop so you have more time to get to the new side: she is FAST (I had to watch the RCs in slow motion to see exactly what was happening) so giving yourself more room and more time will make it easier.
The collection sandwich is looking good! It think the blinds were more timely when you started from the cookie toss (you could get further away :)) But it was really great to see her holding a stay for a moment on the mat!
Nice connection on the exit of the blinds! I agree – your timing of the decel was easier, which set up really good collection for the pivot. Yay!Was she able to get back on the toy when you kept it moving? She was a little bit on food mode when you tossed it, so you can fade out the food in your hand for the pivot which should help the thrown toy be even more exciting.
Great job on these!
Tracy
Good morning!
>Also, she has no idea what “ok” means. So, do I say ok, pause and then toss a cookie or toy?>
Are you using OK as your stay release? If so then yes – you can say ‘ok’, pause, then present a cookie or toy. I don’t toss them, because my stay releases all involve coming towards me in some way, doing a thing with me 🙂 So I reward from my hand on those. And you can put it all in context, using the baby stay games. I start these with clicking the stay (which is also the release) then when she has a frame of reference, you can add in the release verbal.
> Would I also use the toy or food marker after the ok?>
You can if you like – I generally don’t in the first session so the pup doesn’t have a thousand things flying around their brain 🙂 I just make the toy presentation obvious (or cookie presentation) because the context cues of us presenting the reward are already well-learned 🙂
The baby retrieve is going well! Is that toy oinking? LOL!
You had quick transitions into the toss and then had nice long tug sessions when she brought it back… which is the key to keeping her motivated to bring it back 🙂 The retrieve is easy to ‘break’ if we keep taking the toy away too quickly to ask her to ‘work’, so keep playing for a relatively long time when she retrieves it 🙂The turn aways are going well – it is really cool to see her turning smoothly in both directions! I saw no side preference here from her. Yay!
When you were patient and slow with the turn away hand, the lap turns and the tandem turns were both perfect!!! If you were a little too quick, she didn’t have time to organize or read the turn cue. This happened at :41 on the lap turn and the first rep of the tandems. But those were the only 2 little questions and the rest were spot on!!! Super!!!!
For the tandems (and future threadle wraps): on the reps when she was on your right side (left hand doing the turn away) you had a nice decel before you turned her away… those were lovely!! The decel prepares her for the turn and she is reading them perfectly.
And click/treat to you for having your hands nice and low so she didn’t pop up to follow them.
You can try adding the prop to the lap turn game name – that one is probably easier to show her the difference between ‘come to hand’ versus ‘go to prop’.
Great job!
TracyHi!
The backing up looked great – He remembered it really quickly! YAY!!!
And the verbal cue is attached! Super nice! This was a nice short session too – they lose form pretty quickly if they get tired. You can revisit this here and there, in different places. We will build on it soon!Pattern game:
>He’s not shy to tell me how he feels 😃. This was harder than I anticipated for him>
Good boy! Behavior is communication, and I think he was correct. Quill and I agree that for most of it, we didn’t know what to do to get rewarded 😂🤣
>. He has done this 3 ways in a fenzi class. Food visible, food in arms like airplane and food hidden. He has big feelings about that food not being visible lol!!!>
The big feelings appear to be frustration from not knowing how to play this game to get the reward – and so the frustration bubbles up pretty quickly. I don’t know what the goal was in the other class, but we definitely do NOT want any frustration built in to pattern games or resilience games at all. This pattern game is not intended to have any element where the food is hidden or faded, or any specific behavior other than engagement and movement. The food can be visible, you arms can (and should!) be relaxed, and you can reward the instant he turns back towards you and re-engages.
I think you were waiting for something more (maybe a sit? Or impulse control after the sit? Eye contact? Not sure!), but then when he was sitting and looking at you later in the session, you were not really rewarding – which is why you got all that frustration behavior.
So whatever you did in the other class… toss is out the window LOL!! It is just frustrating him and it is not what we need for the resilience games. Do what you did from :39 – 1:08 then again right at the end which is having him move away to a treat and when he engages by looking at you on the way back, toss the treat to the other side. That was lovely! No sit needed 🙂
To give you a visual of where this goes – we use the pattern games to get resilience and fantastic engagement, even in crazy high arousal environments. And letting the dog continue to move is excellent for resilience and arousal regulation:
>Stealth control
Started with toy as I knew that would be easier than the food(or anything that means food!). >He did really great here! You can include playing with a different toy here, so he can get even more excitement into it. The bowl was harder for sure but it probably has more of a learning history (FOOD! YUM!)
> We he first came out he went to toy and grabbed it and brought it to me.>
He came out and investigated the bowl as the first order of business here too, and the impulse to immediately investigate something in the environment is something we can avoid as we teach him self-control. A tweak to the set up can do it – having the toy or bowl as the main visible thing in the environment drew his attention to it as you were walking out, so you can have it further away or placed up on something. And you can also bring him out on leash so he doesn’t have the option to investigate it as the first order or business – then start the game further away (like near the door as you come outside) – he can see the distraction but it is far enough away and you won’t be moving towards it, making it easier for him to ignore it 🙂
Nice work here!
TracyHi!
Yes, this went well!! Using the toy seemed to make the mechanics easier and he did great.
He had some great hits and then some leapy moments – I think part of that was he is a little stronger on his left turn side (for now) when you were sending forward from your right hand. So you can be a little closer to it when he is turning right (sending forward from your left hand).
Also you had some good ready dance happening!!! During the ready dance, which is all about arousal regulation – when he kept his feet on the ground, the transition was better into the send. When he was leaping up, he didn’t send as well (or he sent himself upwards to your arm LOL!). This is good to know! So if he leaps up, no worries, keep playing the ready dance but you can make it a little less exciting before the send. Then when he has all 4 feet on the ground – send to the prop.
I think you can add in sideways sending and backwards sending now too!
Great job 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
>Hooray for daylight savings, we’ve got daylight at the end of day!!>
You are getting into a lovely time of year!
He did really well with this game! He is happy to drive ahead to get to the toy first – I am glad you are not going to be able to win (although we can cheat to win if we need too :))
> I think that was more frustration at not being able to get to the toy than me holding his collar.>
I agree, I don’t think he was a collar hold issue (he didn’t seem stressed by that) – it was more about the stability of the mechanics. When your arm is straight and extended, it is harder to hold him. When you are holding him try to lock your elbow into a 90 degree angle before you throw the toy so he doesn’t jump around trying to start the game before you are ready 🙂 When you did that, he felt the stability of the mechanics and jump around. And be sure to be connected to him when you let go, rather than looking forward at the toy. Connection will help him stay on his line and also it will help as you build in the cue to look forward.
Since this is going really well, you can add in a bit of retrieve – just as he is arriving at the toy, you can do a FC and run the other way, calling him. When he comes back to you, reward either with the original toy (if he brings it) or with a 2nd toy. If he drops the first toy on the way to you, no worries, we can build in more carrying soon.
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
>. I’m not holding her collar as she still gets real bitey with that. I use food to help line her up instead of collar hold.>
You had a bit of harness holding right at the beginning and she did well! You can line her up with a cookie, put your hand on the harness for a cookie but don’t hold her or move her by the harness – it is an easy way to keep building in collar touch without biting 🙂
She is doing well with this game! She is also communicating when things are not clear 🙂
>. She does a lot of jumping up to my hand when I’m using food – not sure what to do about that.>
I think she had some questions about what was next and clarifying your connection and markers will smooth all of that out:
For the markers, you were using ‘yes’ and I believe she processes that to me “cookies from da momma” so she looks at you and moves towards you. That was drawing her focus away from the toy in the first part of the session. When you did more “go go get it”, she was focusing on the toy a lot better, especially when you ran to it as well and played.
And, be sure to use go go get it to mean the reward on the ground only – at :30 you said it then gave her a treat from your hand, so she was not sure if she should continue to the toy or not 🙂
So you can give her treats for moving away from the toy on the ground and towards the barrel, giving her the last treat just before the send. Then as she exits the barrel, connect and run, saying ‘go go get it’ to help clarify where to look next if you want her running to the toy.
She had a couple of questions at the barrel, at :45 and :57. I don’t think she was jumping up for treats – it looks more like you were disconnected as you sent forward (which changes the line of your shoulders, which is qhat she is mainly cueing off of), and moving away too quickly – so those caused her to look up at you. When she went smoothly to the barrel, you look at her more as you sent her to it, and you faced the barrel for a few heartbeats longer: that was a nice clear cue for her, so definitely keep doing that!!
About the parallel path game:
>Should I reward If she drives forward past the prop but doesn’t touch it?>If she is going towards it and over it, loking forward? Yes, reward 🙂 You are seeing extension and that is great for this game.
If she is looking at you and trotting past it on either side, focused on you rather than the prop? I would not reward it but if she fails once or twice, make it easier by getting closer and rewarding for heading to the prop.
>She did that 3 times in a row and I didn’t reward… her response was to grab the prop and take a few laps around the yard. I got the message – she’s not subtle.>
HAHA!!! As they say… “behavior is communication” hahahahahaha I guess grabbing the prop is her way of saying “I know it is about the prop, human!” And the prop laps are why we use the prop at this stage plus it is better than barking or biting you arm or something LOL!
Nice work!
Tracy
Good morning!
>. I was thinking when we were out yesterday that we need more adolescent world watching now.>
Yes, we need to revisit lots of things during adolescence but also not be concerned if the pups have different feelings about them. That can change day to day and it is normal.
Strike a pose went great! You can separate your feet in the serp stance so it might be easier to lean over and get your target hand low? The hand position was spot on and your feet were pointing the correct direction, so it is really about what feels most comfy for you 🙂
He was doing the behavior really well so starting it with treats got the ball rolling nicely. He also might think all-treats is a little too chill, so you can get more excitement for driving into you being stationary by tugging after each rep when you are using treats only – or you can toss a treat as a start cookie and use a toy as a reward 🙂 That can make it super fun for him while maintaining the lovely precision he had here.Great job!
Tracy(I recommend a few more verbals because Gruff is built for speed and has the drive/temperament to be incredibly fast while also processing all sorts of cues. This is exciting!!)
Got it! The other thing I recommend is to have a front side soft turn left/right – that would be a 90-degree turn that has collection to it, but it is not a wrap. It is one of the most useful cues lately especially as agility course design is trending towards tons of jump discriminations.
Happily it is really easy to teach and we do teach it later in this class too 🙂
Good morning!
Lots of good work here! I love your energy level and engagement with her!
>1st session of Strike a pose ,my feet were wrong.>
Easy fix for next time, no worries. She did well with this game – it is a hard one especially with the visible toy!
For the targeting – add in having an actual target in your hand because she will see it better when we add all sorts of movement. And it will stand out against the big exciting visual of the toy 🙂
Question about the markers:
Is ‘yesssss’ your cookie in hand marker versus ‘get it’ for toy in hand? Or is toy in hand something else – there was a bit if ‘yes’ and ‘get it’ the toy too and we want to clarify what it is for when things are moving faster and she is more aroused. And since you ratted yourself out earlier this week about marker confusion, I figured I could bug you about it 😂>Too much sideline interference.>
Yes, creeping in and barking at your sister then stealing her hand target opportunity in the first video is both hilarious and distracting LOL! Audie, you’ve been voted off the island LOL
But I totally relate to the pressures of making sure all the dogs have time to run around and train when the weather is good and before the daylight is gone, while also not wanting interference in the puppy’s session…
I use songs to help with this! One dog comes out of the house/crate/xpen, and their turn lasts the length of exactly one fun song (2.5 minutes or 3 minutes, no 20 minute songs allowed hahaha). Then when the song is over? That dog goes back in, and the next dog comes out to do something fun. Sometimes it is training, sometimes it is just running around to burn off steam. So with limited daylight, you can get in a bunch of rotations and everyone is happy… all while bopping to fun songs which puts everyone in a good mood (there are some interesting studies about dogs & music lately, and we already know that humans respond well to music!) Plus I feel like I am getting a small workout, switching out dogs a lot LOL!!!
I also don’t ask the other dogs for a stay – because then if they move, my attention gets diverted from the puppy which is not what I want. And if they move and I ignore it, they end up in the way LOL
Turn aways:
Without the prop:
Nice lap turns here on the right!! Pretty perfect mechanics on your right side with good timing, the low hand and the stepping back with the right leg. Your left sided mechanics were not as smooth – you had your hand high on a few of them, or sometimes had the low hand but didn’t step back. If your left hand is not your dominant hand, practice this without her so it feels as smooth as your right side does 🙂 But the low hand and letting her get to within 2 or 3 inches of the hand is key: that way it will be easier to step back and turn her away.When you added the prop – I think you were trying to indicate the prop while turning her away, so she was not always sure of where to be or what to do.
When the prop is in the picture, you can still have her come in to an empty hand and do the lap turn exactly as you did it without the prop. Then after she does the turn away, just walk by the prop and she will hit it – then you can toss the reward. So basically pretend the prop is not there and focus on the same mechanics – then after the turn away, the prop will be on her line and she will go to it independently.
Nice work!! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
These games all went really well! Yay!
On the sandwich game:
Your connection after the blind was generally strong – only one spot where you didn’t make clear connection (1:18) so she didn’t change sides – BIG click/treat for rolling with it and continuing so she could still get rewarded!
After the blind – she is driving at you nice and fast, so the decel needs to come sooner which allows her to adjust her stride and allows you to get your hand in a little lower. You were generally a little late, decelerating just before she got to you, which is why she was a little wider away from you and she was popping up a bit. Your earliest decel was at 1:39 – and she was able to drive right into you. Yay! So you can basically start your decel as soon as you finish the blind. I don’t think the cookie in hand or empty hand was an issue for her at all, she was great – it was about the decel timing.
It is great to having someone throwing the toy so you don’t need 3 arms for this game. Her best responses were when Tina was running and you were running, but we can get even more acceleration out of the pivot:
Think of it as a toy race, where you start to run, saying GO GO GO (or her get it marker) – if you get to the toy first, you get to tug with Tina. And she has to watch – which might make her BIG MAD and then she smokes you on the next rep 🙂
And please video this for the hilarity LOL!
Parallel path on the prop – going great! The get it marker really helped her not look up at you – yay! You can add more distance away from it laterally. Also, you can move further from it but start right next to her, so she drives ahead of you to it… which sets us up to start the rear crosses.
She also had strong value for the rotated sends! My only suggestion is to add the ready dance to get snappy behavior – the ready dance will get her excitement up for it so when you cue her, she will really pop to the prop 🙂 She was offering it nicely but you were chill, so she was chill. You can be a ready dance nut and then send her, I think she will enjoy that and you’ll get great prop smacks 🙂
Great job!
Tracy
Hi!
Strike a pose is going well! I think he liked the action of the running back and forth with the toy as the main reward 🙂 and he looked balanced in both directions. Great job here with the physical position and the reward placement!!
As he is heading back towards you, the visible toy makes this a hard discrimination especially when the toy was still swinging. When you looked more at the target (like at 1:15 and 1:27 and 1:57) rather than directly at him, his target hits were fantastic! He was driving in to the target hand and not considering the toy. So you can definitely watch him get the start cookie and then shift your gaze to the target hand.
He was pumped up for the toy here, so you can actually slow the transitions from the toy play to the tossed treat to start: have your hands low when you cue the out, then let him release and back off the toy for a few seconds, then slowly lift it to reset for the next rep. You were quick in those transitions, which was getting a bit of re-gripping and jumping for the toy. So the slower transitions will give him a moment to fold in some impulse control too! And then he will process the ‘get it’ for the start treat – he would miss that sometimes if it all happened to fast and he was still focused on the toy.
Great job getting the verbals added in – I think the markers were really effective, especially when you had the toy in your hand. You might need to emphasize the difference between “take” and “get” as well, if it all happens really fast and he misses anything 🙂 As he gets more experience with this game, you won’t even need to point at the toy on the ground.
I think toy on the ground was actually easier for him than the toy in your hand! He did SUPER well! So you can keep going with that, moving the toy a bit further away so he has more room to turn to it and take the next stride.. And of course you can use a food bowl on the ground too!
Lovely work!
Tracy
