Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Hi1
It doesn’t sound like you are behind at all! You are working all the smaller pieces and that brings everything together easily! Being able to switch from toys to food to toys is HUGE!!!! Yay! And seeing the future teamwork is very exciting! Let me know how the rear crosses go – she is going to be speedy so you will need rear crosses in your toolbox 🙂Thanks for the update!!
TracyHi! Thanks for the kind words, it was super fun to win!
I am glad she is feeling so confident with this game! It is pretty hilarious! She does indeed love it!
>>In our last class I believe you mentioned not to start on teeter training until they’re older?? Something about it being too hard on their bodies.>>
Yes, there is a lot of impact on the dog when the teeter hits the ground – the joints have to absorb it all. The PT vets and rehab vets want us to do very few reps and til the dogs are older (the teeter, a-frame, and weaves should be taught last, per the vets). And we want he dog to shift into the hind end for balance to help absorb the impact. So on this game, because you are holding the board and dropping it, it is harder for her to predict the drop and she is not shifting her weight back at all. You can tweak it a little so that the wobble board is on the ground, so she shifts her weight back as she learns that she can control the movement of the board.
You can also have her jump on the very end of the teeter – the teeter should be propped up so that the end she is jumping on is less than an inch off the ground – she will get the idea of moving the board, and she will control it and that will help with the weight shifting. We have some teeter games coming in MaxPup 3, but I generally don’t start the teeter stuff til the pups are over a year old, so the balance and coordination are more fully developed. Doing the wobble board to build confidence is very important – the next thing you can do with it is have her tug on a toy while on it, so she can learn the weight shift through the tugging 🙂
Nice work 🙂
TracyHi!
Thanks for the kind words! It was a pretty big win. I don’t know why the stream went out for everyone – it might have had something to do with the higher level teams getting filmed for ESPN? I guess we will see if any of it ends up on ESPN (that would be fun!) One of our races is posted on our facebook page (I think that was the race that clinched our spot in the finals). I don’t have the finals video yet – it was a nail biter!First video – very nice job with all the different ways to handle that jump!
Your decel and transition at :50 created a GREAT wrap turn! It did sound like a right verbal not a wrap verbal – you were caught up in the moment LOL – but the physical cues were great. And he read the rear cross with no questions. So nice!
The backsides looked good too. I htink you might have blocked the wing a little on the very last rep – that circle wrap is the same position (wing meets the bar) as the FC you did there on the other reps.About the verbals:
>> Backside slice should be “Push” and wrap should be “Dig”.
Great! Now we can clearly define when to use them. There are so many different turns and lines that it can get a little grey, so I use the push (slice) cue when the dog enters on one wing, and exits towards the other so there is not a lot of collection. And the “dig” i s for any time the dog enters and exits on the same wing (lots of collection) even if it is not a full circle. I would use dig for both of the backsides you did here – the FC on the landing side is on the same wing as he entered on, and so is the circle wrap. That can help get collection for both of those challenging turns.
On mission transition – the more he could see you move from running fast to decelerating, the better his turn was. And his commitment was SUPER – freeze your video at :47 just before he takes off and you will see that you are fully rotated and movnig the other way while he maintains his commitment and turns really tight. Happy dance!
Layering –
I think saying ‘jump’ is btter than ‘out’ because he is simply staying on a line and not really lead changing away from you. He did better on the reps where you said ‘jump’ so feel free to keep using that verbal.Moving the wing made it a little too hard in that first session, so you can keep it on an easier line and can start further from the wing or barrel to get more momentum. That way he is in full stride going around it which will help propel him to the jump.
Now, if he runs on the correct side of the tunnel – you can still throw the reward out past the jump even if he doesn’t take it. Think of it as a shaping game – if he is heading towards the jump, throw the reward because we can shape the behavior with reward placement. Successive approximations will help build the distance. He was already figuring it out, as you can see from the next-day video.
>> It does’t feel as natural to me to use the outside arm, but I can see how it would make the line clearer to the dog, >>
Also keep in mind that he can’t see your feet because the tunnel is blocking the view, so the outside arm is a lot more visible for him.
On the zig zag grid – the overhandling really helped him 🙂 There is a lot of coordination that he has to do, lots of footwork, so it was taking him a minute to get it sorted. I am sure he will start to recognize the setup and get the footwork going better and better each time – it is a hard skill!
One detail: be sure to start him right next to the first wing, so his shoulder is almost touching it (just far enugh away so that is it easy for him to get past the foot of the wing. Too much speed actually makes it harder for him to sort out the footwork, so starting him pretty close is a little easier.
Lap turns: Be closer to the wing so he sees the context. You should be close enough to it to touch it 🙂 And be sure your magic cookie hand is fully extended towards his nose so he has a focal point then when he just about gets to it, you can step back. Your hands were a little high, so having the hand lower will help. By the end of the session, you were closer to the wing so he was able to read it all better. Yay!
The out session went well! Try not to change the line of your lower body at all for this proofing game – I could tell which one you were going to cue based on how you pulled away from the wing or not on the first few reps LOL!
One small detail: Remember to keep your out arm lower as you add more speed – at 1:00 your arm was shoulder height which he won’t see as well. You can keep the outside arm at the height of your belly button as you cue the out so he can see it better.Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Sorry for the delay, I am finally home and catching up!On the first video, you were working them more as post turns, where she came around the wing and found the jump directly by turning to her right or left. Nice job with the verbals!! If you pulled away from the wing to soon, she did not find the jump, so keeping connection until she saw the jump worked really well!
So the nex step is to make her line more of the “S” shape for the harder serps. The way to get that is for you to run a line parallel to the jump bar, with the MM on the end of that line. So you will be sending her to the wing and then moving parallel to the bar, close enough to touch the jump, with your shoulder facing the center of the bar (and serp arm back like you did here) That will be harder, so you will want to maybe do a fast walk through it at first instead of a run.
The rear crosses are going well too! Yay! She is definitely seeming to understand the RC pressure of you pushing into the line towards the center of the bar and found the correct direction really well!
I think your left turn rear crosses were better than your right turn RCs, because you were heading for the center of the bar before she was even out of the tunnel. That was great – no need to run straight til she exits, you can get on the RC diagonal line as soon as she enters the tunnel.
>> LOUDLY declare the turns ahead of time.>>
Ha! Loud is good! Your verbals were spot on!
>> I am trying really hard to look at her as she comes out of the tunnel & keep running.>>
You nailed it! She seemed to have no questions 🙂
>> When I see it on video it looks so lame, but in real life it feels so intense.
It doesn’t look lame on the video at all! It looks connected and fast, and she knew where she was going. Lovely!!!
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi! Sorry for the delay, the last 36 hours have been a nuts getting back from Indianapolis.
>>You mean rotate at the waist instead of trying to do some kind of awkward backbend like I was?
It might feel easier to do that! Or weirder 🙂 Either way, you can experiment and see what works best!
The Diamond is looking great!
>>Full transparency – this was our 3rd different day playing this game.
Well, the practice you already put into it is really showing up beautifully!
I loved your timing on the tight blinds – you were trusting his commitment and starting the blinds early enough to be finished before he really even got to the wing. You can see that at :31 and :43, for example, but really they were ALL like that. You might find it even easier and faster if you keep your arms in tight next to you rather than fully extended out to the sides.
The race tracks also look lovely! He is powering up and down the lines with no questions. Super! The only questions he had were at the end, the last sequence, when I think your plan was not as clear and you were talking to him with ‘good’ and ‘yes’. Otherwise your verbals were lovely as well as your connection!
Great job here 🙂
TracyWelcome back!!! It sounds like the vacation was amazing!!!!! I am confident that you will jump back in with no problem at all. You can even start up again with the Wind In Your Hair games – the new one is Mission Transition and should be a lot of fun!
Tracy
Hi! The video finally loaded up!
Good practice session with the baby dog! He has some learning to do on the slice angle of jump 1, with you moving further and further away.
He was definitely more successful as you used lower body input – the step to the jump really helped him (like at 5:41 and 9:48). Two other suggestions:
– Put the toy on the other side of it too! You can then let him look at the toy when you lift your arm (before the release) and then release to the jump. You can show him the jump by moving to it and pointing at it, before moving to the lead out position (some dogs do really well with the handler “marking” the jump like that” but mainly I think placing a toy on the other side of it will be a quick and easy and fun way to get him seeing it as you gradually get further away.
-If you feel his stay is strong enough, another option can be to put your arm and leg forward to the jump, take a breath… then release.
One observation:
Try to handle him like you would handle Enzo 🙂 It won’t be as smooth or easy of course, but it will help him learn to read the lines better.If you try to help too much, he ends up pulling bars or hitting wings. The #3 jump here was the hard one and that was where things were harder to get the turn AND get up the next line. So the over-helping was causing the bars to come down a lot. I prefer to not rehearse that (I am sure you agree) and I don’t want to punish bars because he was trying to read the handling – so I prefer off courses at this stage for 2 reasons:
– bars stay up!
– off courses give great feedback on timing and handling needs.You were over-helping on 3 at 5:44 for example, with a big rotation towards him (I thought you were doing a FC there) then you were really late showing the next line standing still at 5:46 so he hit the wing of 4 and hit the bar of 5 turning the wrong way. There was similar activity at 13:25 (big rotation towards him over 3 so he hit the jump at 4)
The FC at 9:50 3-4 was a little late in terms of setting the motion to 4 (same thing happened at 14:18 You were rotating as he was over 3, but backing up. So when he landed at 9:51, you took one more backwards step so he went off course. To paraphrase Linda Mecklenburg, backwards motion is basically the same as forward motion! Ideally your feet would be facing 4 before he takes off for 3 (easier said than done with a baby dog that is a rocket!). You got in to the FC sooner on the next attempt and at 14:53, but then stood still so he went to the backside because you were on his line to the takeoff. You did get the front of 4 at 16:12 (yay!) but the standing still got you caught behind the jump and opened up the wrong end of the tunnel.
Check out how you kept moving at 7:10 and gave GREAT connection on the exit of the cross – so he had no questions about 4 or the 5 tunnel: SUPER!!!!! (And also more like handling Enzo – not managing lines, just running lines :))
At 12:23 you started to handle more like you would with Enzo and we got great info from him in the form of an off course. I would rather have an off course than him looking at you or hitting the bars. It was rewardable because he was not wrong!
So for that pesky 3 jump and 3-4-5 line… because when you did it as a post turn you got an off course, the next thing to try would be sending into a spin on 3. The rotation for the spin will get the collection on 3 AND keep you moving up the line 4-5 to set the rear cross (on the 5 jump before the tunnel, or on the 4 jump or on the flat when the tunnel is 5). I don’t think you will always need a spin there, but for now it can help him read the turn while you continue to move up the line. This will help teach the collection (rotation then chasing you up the line!) and keep you moving so he sees the next line and can set up the jumping nicely.
When you can lead out further from 1, the FC 3-4 or even a blind will be easier to get because when he lands from 2, you will be past 3 and able to start and finish the the cross very easily.
You’re an the ending line nicely and he did well (just remember to keep driving through the ending so you don’t stand up and he pulls the bar looking at you and the toy).
The pattern games are looking good! It is good to play them near the obstacles! Question – what is his current level of experience near a trial ring? How does he do in that environment? We can start bringing these games into his group class or seminar environment (or maybe when you are in Enzo’s class, in between your turns).
Great job here! I will let you know what I figure out about the iOs! If I can’t figure it out, I will ask tech support aka Facebook-land LOL!
Tracy
No worries about the scent, if more than one dog was really interested. Must have been a good scent LOL!! If you see something he has trouble with, you can move a little further away and try a pattern game. I am really excited about how well he is engaging in the trial environment!!
Hi! You are doing awesome with your cues! It is totally normal to have to learn the different timing needs of new dogs as we start trialing, which is why it is important to just carry on if something goes wrong – that way the dogs still feel comfortable giving us the feedback on the handling and don’t slow down or get mad at us 🙂
Keep me posted on how she does at AKC this weekend! You can use food closer to the ring at AKC trials than at NADAC trials, so you can try the up and down game closer to the ring and see how she does!
Tracy
Good morning!
>>Food is powerful EVERYWHERE!
I can relate! LOL! Food is life!
>>There’s still times she’ll disengage from the chicken hearts- my trainer calls it that her brain is too full- so she’s just done. She’s not one of those border collies that can keep doing the same thing over and over again.>>
Be sure to keep a timer on your sessions – 2 minutes or less! If she is working for too long and stops eating a high value reinforcement, that definitely means she needed a break sooner 🙂
>>yes- the indoor lesson instructor said it would be best if she stayed in one environment, so whatever..
I disagree, I think the pups should be in all sorts of different environments! So the more places you can get her into, the better 🙂 I think you and I are on the same page with that 🙂
>>My local club is being very supportive though! Especially when they remembered back when their dogs were young and doing the same thing! So often we forget when our dogs were babies when we’re up in Master level!.. we just dont have an indoor place to practice all the time.>>
That is great!!!! I love that they are supporting your adventures with her!! Maybe when you are back on your feet you can do a training tour of different backyards?
>> I was just talking about her being in season as a reason we had to stop going to the run thurs recently. indoor sessions only happen every once in a while so I was a bit upset that we have to miss them.>
Ah, that is a bummer! But I am glad she didn’t get overly hormonal.
>>Regarding the mat- yes sometimes we go to the mat- and run again and so on! just the mat helps her understanding, it seems- just can’t seem to get rid of that as I think I/we dont know how to end appropriately.>>
No worries! The mat will eventually move outside the ring (I hav a game for that) and the leash will replace the mat. Fun times ahead!
>>so we literally have to train in a regulation ring to make ANY progress.>>
Yes, that would be great, but also not required 🙂 The bigger ring brings more arousal – so we can simulate that at home by adding more arousal. That is where the pattern games and volume dial game comes in, because we use those to regulate arousal WAY up (like a trial) then back down. It is very cool and can really help!
>>I did have a question about the Volume dial game- so she can go from tug tug tug, we out the toy- then I down her and she listens and sit theres and waits for me to do it again. How do I know she’s NOT still over aroused? like she’s anticipating the game now so she’s downing because thats what I said, but her insides are still over aroused?>>
Excellent questions! And the answer is… we don’t know til we noodle around with it in different contexts. Her body has to learn to regulate up and down, and that takes time and practice. Neural pathways! Plus, she needs more maturity (you will see a HUGE difference when adolescence is finished) and experience.
And in the meantime, we practice the games and observe her responses during the game, as well as what happens after it. It is an observational, experimental process that helps us develop a plan for her, helps her manage herself, and helps us know what it looks like when she is under-aroused, over-aroused, and in that perfect state of arousal 🙂 Kind of like Goldilocks and the three bears – she was eating their porridge and it was too hot, too cold… just right! It will take us a little bit of time to sort out what her “just right” is, and her pre-frontal cortex needs to finish developing (that part of the brain controls the executive function and suppresses emotional responses, both of which are very helpful in agility LOL!)
>>I really appreciate answering all these questions! This is so helpful and I think once I get her back from the breeder (she goes Saturday :(( ) after my surgery, Im hoping to have a nice game plan! Im hoping to get her back once I can at least walk so maybe I’ll have her back before this class ends!>>
Keep asking the questions, I am enjoying the planning with her! And since you have some time off your feet, we can put together plans for when you are back in action! And I can also point you to other threads to watch, as we figure out which pups will be similar.
When is your surgery? I will be thinking of you!
Tracy
Awesome! We will be able to put some of the bigger pieces together and see how she does! At this early stage, think of trialing as ‘fact-finding missions’ where we try to figure out what she needs in the environment (in and out of the ring) and when she needs to see it. No rush for Qs or anything, just getting the teamwork where we want it!
Tracy
Good morning!
Very nice session here, you did a great job breaking it down and working all of the elements. Super!!!
2 small suggestions:
You can line him up on more of a slice at jump 1, so he is doing a hard slice over it and lands facing the line to 2 (rather than facing straight over 1 then turning after landing).
On the RC before the tunnel, you can get tighter to the center of the bar like you did at 1:54 when you worked it on 2 jumps. To do this, when doing the full sequence, you can start moving to the center of the bar of the RC jump before he takes off for the previous jump. This is a tricky line – you can move forward the center of the bar sooner, but you need to let him get past you before you finish the RC because you will be a little ahead of him as you move up the line (but he will easily pass you :))
He drove ahead of you brilliantly at the end of the sequence too!
At the end, it looked like you added some spicy arousal with some tricks before running it again, and he was perfect! He was a little faster because he was more pumped up, but your handling was lovely and he did a great job!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Thanks for your patience everyone! It all turned out well, just really long days – we started racing at 7:30 am and ran Finals after 9:30PM. Eek!
Good morning!
Do you happen to know what iOs your phone is on? I want to take a look at iMovie today and figure out why it is giving you problems. I have different versions of iOS installed on different devices so might be able to figure it out.
Video is loading right now (YouTube is being weird with it!) so I will let it fully load up then be back with thoughts for you 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
The up and down game looked good! Plenty of distractions and she did really well, even when someone walked right behind you!
>>After this, we did a back and forth game away from the ring but with her back to the steps where people and dogs were going up and down. That was actually too much for her. I didn’t think this attempt (on video) was too bad!>>
It is possible that it was too hard for her to assess the environment when her back was too it. So if she struggles, you can turn her around to look at the distractions while she is playing the game. And, separately, practice this game at home with a novel (but easy) distraction behind her so she understands how to handle that challenge.
Looking at the trial runs – she does indeed seem pretty comfy in the ring when you start running! And we want to keep it that way, so don’t fix any errors in the runs 🙂 All of the errors were handling errors, even the weave errors (other than the altercation moment, but that was fine that she looked at it – it was loud and scary!!)
Stopping to fix errors in handling can be deflating or frustrating to the dog, and also dilute response to cues – as well as change arousal state which opens up the environment as a distraction. She was reading you correctly, so stopping her to try again can be confusing.
For example in TnG, after the tunnel under the frame, you were still moving forward so she did check in with you, saw your motion forward even though you were calling her, and went to the hoop straight ahead. We don’t want her to think that it is wrong (to correctly follow your handling) so if she goes off course or past something? Assume it was handler error and carry on.
Or in Jumpers, you were a little late with the turn 4-5 so she went around it. You gave a MUCH better cue in the second run so she got the jump (but pulled the bar, which means it was still a little late 🙂 plus the distance was short and you had a big “yes” over the bar, so she hit the wing)
With the weave errors – she is a baby dog and that angle of entry was not on a natural line, so she needed a bit more of a turn cue on the jump before it to help line her up. Without it, she had trouble getting organized for the weave entry. Eventually it won’t be a problem, but as a baby dog we want to help her out 🙂
>>she definitely is nervous in the building and around the other dogs when not in the ring. We did eat treats throughout the day, but I didn’t even attempt any tugging.
You can try some tugging and see how she feels! She will either enjoy it, or she will say “no thanks”. Either way is fine 🙂 And the food is pretty powerful, so you can increase the value of the food as you get closer to the ring and to the distractions.
She did better on the start line (in terms of not sniffing or looking around) in the runs where you were being a little more active, moving a little, etc.
So one thing to experiment with is going to the line, keeping her moving a bit (adding a trick or two) – then when they are ready for you, ask for the sit, take the leash off, and lead out. When she was not moving or in the sit for too long with you facing her and not moving, she started to look around a bit. We will work on ways to keep the engagement level high and the arousal level high (which is a good thing!) so the environment doesn’t become distracting. When is her next trial?
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
