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Hi!
We do add rear crosses in the next session, but for now – try being sooner so that she sees almost the entire rear cross before she goes into the tunnel. Since her tunnel commitment is good, you can start her pretty far back with the wing wrap. Start putting that rear cross ‘pressure’ on her line just after she exits the wrap, getting closer to her. When she is about 6 feet from the tunnel, you should crossing behind her. It will feel early but that is the timing she will need on course too when she is all grown up 🙂 If she does not commit to the tunnel, you can place the reward on the other end of the tunnel (on a slight turn in the correct direction) to help her.And yes definitely feel free to post a video. It is possible that you are perfectly on time and Dora has a different question 🙂
TracyHi!
Nice work on the videos!
Rocking horses – Her commitment is looking stronger and stronger here! Yay! Great job adding your verbals too. This was a fun session! Two little details:
She left to investigate a distraction right at the beginning – so you can try to add a little porridge heating (some tricks and tugging) as you bring her into the start of the game, to help her be fully engaged before the first rep. You had great tugging, but getting the tricks involved will help you know if she is ready for the game or not 🙂
Her only real question in this session was whether to go to the barrel or take the toy when it was in the hand nearest her. So, you can clarify when the toy is available by aadding the marker for the toy that specifically says “now come grab the toy” so she knows when to get it or not. I think you did say get it at one point, but I think that gets used for thing you throw – so something different will really clarify things for her. I use “bite”, some folks say “strike”, to give you ideas 🙂
Tunnel rocking horses are going well! She was very into the toy!
A couple of things about the toy:
>> I did not have toy in the wrong place>>
it was not in the wrong place, she just doesn’t know when it is available as a reinforcement or not 🙂 Adding the marker words will really help her, because that clarifies that the toy is not available until she hears the magic word.
You can have a second toy to help her come back to you, rather than take herself on victory laps between reps 🙂
In between reps:
At :38, you can help her be more ready by taking a moment to engage her between the ‘out’ of the toy and the send to the wing. You tried to go from the out to the send, but she was not engaged. So add in a heartbeat of getting eye contact, asking her if she is ready… then send her to the wing.On the left turns into the tunnel – I think a clearer transition will help here too (that is your theme today, clear transitions :)) So rather than fast sends, make a *longer* transition. On most of the reps, you were feeding her a cookie to line her up then immediately sending her – which is probably too quick for her to fully process that. So, after the line up cookie, gently take her collar, say tunnel 3 or 4 or 5 times…. and then let go and see what she does. The goal is that you are not helping with body language – right now she is reading your body language, so if you are perfect she gets it. But if you are not perfect, she spins. Taking out the body language and making a longer transition should help her process the cue and turn to her left.
So for the next session, work easy angles to the left and make long transitions: priming the pump by sending her straight will really help – so start with her facing the tunnel on your right, just going straight (kind of what you did at :33) Then on your left, just going straight. Then on your right, at a slight angle for a send (not a threadle) – then on that same very slight angle – on your left so she turns away.Her line up position can be perpendicular to the tunnel entry for now, rather than parallel to it like she was here. I am sure she will have a big “A-HA!” moment then it will all be very easy 🙂
Serp on the jump:
She came in for the serp really nicely! And good position from you and good placement of reward too.>>We had a great tug session to start and then she seamed to just fizzle.
I think the food value overrode the toy here. She got a tossed cookie to start, then what *you* after you tossed the toy reward: your right hand went to your pocket which is the international sign for “COOKIES!” LOL! So she of course said “no thanks” to the toy in favor of cookies. Then you handed it to her, which affirmed her decision. So to help maintain the toy drive all the way through, you probably don’t want to mix toys and treats in the same session for now. And when you toss a toy, engage with it and be careful about reaching for cookies 🙂
>>I also have question on the next session – which class do I get to do live – it said one – so do I get to pick which one? I will be out of town on a couple. Did I read it right?>>
I believe you are in the Live working spot, which means you can work live in all of the live classes (March 8, March 22, March 29, April 12, April 26). I think the confusion maybe was choosing one of the live options – which is working in the live classes versus auditing. Sorry that it was confusing!!! If you let me know which dates you can’t come to the live class, maybe we can split the spot with someone else?
Great job on the videos! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! It is really great that you had plenty of daylight to go outside and play!! And whoa, that panoramic photo at the beginning…. so nice!!!!
Excellent session here, Karena! Starting this without motion allows you to establish the mechanics (there is a LOT to do here) and you were great! The only question he had was at :40 – I don’t think you moved too early there in terms of stepping forward to the line, I think it was more about when you looked forward. On all the other reps, you shifted your connection really well to the landing spot and held the connection there til he was past you and basically at the jump bump. On the rep where he pulled off, you turned your head sooner, before he was full committed – which pulled him off.
The timing of the change is connection is not incorrect – but it Will probably take a few more sessions for him to let you ‘disconnect’ for the blind cross exit that early. On your very last rep, you were beginning to turn your head a little sooner and he was great!
So for the next session, start to move forward sooner but while you do that, keep your connection back to the landing spot til you see him arrive at the bump. (Yes, it will feel a little weird LOL!!!) If that goes well for a session or two, you can begin relaxing the connection and reward him for continuing to commit.Let me know if that makes sense about the connection – holding it back to the landing spot by looking behind you for now, then eventually we can add in not needing to connect. My end goal is that these youngsters will have such a depth of understanding that you can indicate with one physical and verbal cue, then disconnect and run to where you want to be next.
Great job here!!!
TracyHi!
>>And keep tossing in a few ‘catch’ rewards too<< I do that almost every rep, I just mostly cut them out of the video now to keep them shorter.>>
Perfect! Her stay is looking really good!
>>As you do add more motion, keep your shoulders/upper body frozen in serp position until after she has arrived at the MM so you don’t relax your upper body after the click. We don’t want to build the habit of the upper body turning forward at all, as that will pull her off the next serp line when she is on jumps.<< >>This is goinig to be something I need to keep working on, I thought I did better on the threadle work today while we were doing it but after watching the video I still need to do it better.>>
It is definitely going to feel WEIRD for now but it it totally worth it for the behavior to end up being very independent.
>>Week 10 – Left/Right using Pool Noodles
>>Picked up some ~4″ diam pool noodles and tried taping them to the carpet with painters tape and also angled the jumps as you suggested.>>
The setup looked good, the pool noodles are working well! The carpet is a little slippery but as long as you don’t add speed to this, it will work out well for our purposes til the snow melts.
>>I realized while watching the video that I likely should have treated this as a jump grid by either not sitting her at all or sitting her in a better position to start as she wasn’t getting consistent striding at times, but when she did it was pretty lovely. Will keep that in mind for next time we do this.>>
Yes – having her in a consistent start position will help, I think my favorite was at :49. She also got bored with it pretty fast (her striding on the left turns was not as good mainly because she was looking around, checking her phone, etc LOL) so you can tug between each rep, or start her from a gentle collar hold instead of sit or stand. That can add enough spicy-ness to it to keep her more engaged 🙂
>>Also, my reward placement seemed better on the left turns over the right turns, probably because I am very right-handed and I just automatically gravitate to using the hand for a reward which got me turning on some of those.>>
totally agree! I mean, the reward placement using your right on the right turns was not terrible, she was still turned – but the placement on the left turns was fabulous! that is mainly a planning thing: plan each rep to have the cookies in the reward hand before you send her into the minny pinny.
The threadles did go well! You had just the right amount of motion here: very little but you stayed in motion.
Question: are going to use the one-arm threadle cue (as opposed to the cross arm)? if so, you can add swinging it back as part of the cue. If you are going to use the cross arm, you can add it now.> Don’t think I held my upper body positon well enough on these, surprisingly hard not to relax on clicking that little button!>
Actually, I think you were fine! You didn’t really relax the position til after she had turned her head away and was well on her way to the MM, so the very slight change of shoulder line was not helping her go to the jump.
Since this is going well, I would now change her position slightly so she is maybe 1 foot or so over closer to the center of the bar: and show her the threadle and the serpentine in the same session. That way, she doesn’t try to Threadle.All.The.Things. haha! The verbal makes the difference, as well as your position when you release (on the entry wing for threadles, almost at the exit wing for serps). The MM stays in the same place the whole time 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
I figured you didn’t post the video on purpose, kind of a cliffhanger. LOL!I love the flowers on the harder card on your video LOL!
He did great and now I think he can see the ‘big picture’ of where all this is going! We add the tunnel to the wings in the next class to basically teach the youngsters how to run big courses LOL!
He was great – speed, focus, and also nice tight turns when asked. I loved the courses you made up – so fun!! You both had really lovely connection throughout and you were working nicely early timing.
Be sure to add your verbals even more consistently – I think you had a ‘push’ verbal going but it matched a variety of different turns, so you can add different ones such as wrapping to the left versus wrapping to the right.And you can add more of the racetracks, where he just gets to run run 🙂 His collections on the FCs and spins looked great, you both had good timing too! And when you threw in a turn and burn here and there, he nailed it. Very cool to see!
On the harder setup in the 2nd half of the video – it was more of a racetrack setup but don’t say go 🙂 because go is fun on extension and there are turns in the racetrack. You can run more, pumping arms, rather than decelerating and sending – that will keep him on his line even better. If you want to say something, these racetrack turns fit the left/right verbals (I always feel the need to say something LOL)
2 other details to consider:
Try to only use reward markers like ‘bite’ or ‘strike’ with the toy – if you have ‘yes’ as the marker, it gets confusing when you say ‘yes’ in the sequence as praise for a job well done because he will (correctly) think it is time for the toy. This is what happened at 1:24 when he came to you even though you were still moving. I learned this the hard way with my dogs, so I have tried to eliminate “yes” as a reward marker so they don’t get confused and stay on their lines, even if I say “yeah!” for a great collection or something mid-course. If “yes” means “come get the toy”, he might start coming off his line.
And, now that he is all “game on!!!” and speeding through the tunnel – stretch it out and add more tunnel bags so it doesn’t move. We want him to feel the power of it but we don’t want him to slip or wrench a foot as it is moving.
Great job here!! He looked great and had fun, so keep adding on the crazy courses to this setup 🙂
TracyGood morning! Racetracks are a fun way to feel the wind in your hair after a busy day 🙂
She did really well here! Nice commitments from a long way away. For the racetracks, you actually can run all the way to the wings, just running the inside line compared to her outside line. You can run and pump your arms as if running a course. Decelerating to send was fine to, but it might feel more comfortable if you just ran. She seemed happy either way and was committing nicely.
>>She was a bit wide here I think. What do we do when that happens?>>
I don’t worry about it too much with baby dogs and she is doing well. Young dogs use these games to figure out how to go fast and turn 🙂
Her lines on the racetracks were perfect – they should be a little wider so she can maximize speed while still turning.
On the rotations where you felt she was wide, it was mainly because you were late with the rotation. So, if you see her wide on the FCs and the spins, you can decelerate and start the rotation sooner.
:40, for example, was timely (you were rotated before she passed you) so she was tight turning to her right there. COmpare it to the spin right after it (:44) where the rotation started later so the spin was later – so she stayed a little wider until she saw the next line.
And, tonight we add a decel game so the dogs can read the decel that comes before the rotation and be better prepared for the rotation, and therefore collect better.
She only had 2 little commitment questions, both were due to the same small handler mechanics oopsie of pointing forward and looking forward before she passed you, which caused her to see your shoulders change lines so she pulled into you.
It is a little harder to see at :18 because your back is to the camera. When she didn’t commit, you can either reward or resend rather than stop and pull the toy away . It does not appear that she was coming for the toy, it looked like she was following your hand/shoulders.It is a little easier to see at :40 -:51 where you did a decel-to-handler-moment (she was SUPER!) but then she had a hard time going back to the cone. You looked forward and pointed forward as you sent, which turned your shoulders to the other side of the cone so she came in. After the decel moment, you can connect more on the exit of that to get her back on the line.
In both of those moments, you can totally use your arm to give her a gentle swoosh forward, but keep the arm low and let your arm move just ahead of her nose, while you look at her eyes the whole time (as much as possible). Resist temptation to look for the cone or look at the cone, because that is what causes the line of your shoulders to turn and pulls her off.
These commitment sends get a lot less tricky as the dogs begin to understand the game fully 🙂 So for now, exaggerate the connection and low arm, and in the future when she is competing it won’t be as important 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyEasy answer… the demo dogs were not in a stay so no release is needed 🙂 same as when we did the ready dance and then the send to the prop. My dogs only need to stay if there has been a cue to stay, otherwise they get too sticky. You can also use your verbal directional because that also gives permission to start moving.
TracyI am sure the 3 barn cats provide some good training opportunities LOL! And hooray for flyball! It is really so fun.
Hi!
Lots of good work here!!!Rocking horses –
I see what you mean by the checking out. I don’t think you were uninteresting, I think the checking out was more about arousal and value. I think getting some toy play involved would really help, mainly so you can toss the rewards and not always reward from your hands. The beginning of the session went really well but rewarding with you stopping and giving cookies reduced excitement and also shifted value to your hands/being next to you and away from leaving you for the barrel. We don’t want to just toss cookies on the floor all he time all the time, so toy play would be a great option here: it will get her more excited and also you can throw the toys as rewards to the other side of the barrel, to build value for moving away from you.Minny Pinny video 1 – this was a very engaged session, she was very zippy and happy… toy play made a big difference! Yay! So definitely add the toy to the rocking horses. She was super on the minny pinny, committing in both directions and driving to the toy. My only suggestion is to line her up straight at your side before each rep – it was a little awkward for her to start facing you a bit so you can use a hand touch to line her up, or tug her into position. Eventually you will be able to use a cookie line up but I am not sure she would go back to the toy right away, and right now the toy play is more important here 🙂
The 2nd minny pinny video also looked good! She did really well finding the middle jump with it further away. You can move it out a little more now too (it doesn’t need to be much further away, maybe just another 6 inches. Her only oopsie was because of the line up, I think – at 1:07 she was not quite lined up and you sent her in, so she had the error there. Compare it to your next rep at 1:24 where you convinced her to line up 🙂 That gave you a clearer send and she was successful! So keep working to convince her to line up at your side – she seemed happy to let you tug her into position 🙂
Retrieve:
I think these bathroom play sessions are great for giving you two some one-on-one time to play with the toy being thrown. She was really good at driving to the toy, and she was basically retrieving it to you, generally 🙂 It is so much improved from the first video in the bathroom!!! I am not sure if it is a formal retrieve yet but that is fine – she is bringing it to a point where you can easily engage with her, so it is indeed a retrieve.>>Not sure where to go from here, do I just keep working this, maybe in a different room? Do I go on to the next level? I would not call here really trying to get it to me, but sometimes she came in my direction.>>
You can try several different games. Keep doing this type of play for some one-on-one time. You can also move this to different rooms. And you can incorporate toy throws into some of the games. If you think she is going to take off and run away, have the toy on a long line so you can throw it and hold the other end of the line, giving you control as you convince her to bring it towards you.
And, separately, you can shape the retrieve on other objcxt with a clicker, that is a fun shaping game!
Lap turns was went well, she definitely has the idea of turning away from you. Keep your hands nice and low, especially on the right turns. These will be even easier if you start with distance between you and her. You can leave her in a stay about 6 feet away so you can set up the lap turn and then release her. And I think she is ready for the next step, which is calling her past the prop then after the lap turn, she hits the prop going in the new direction.
Barrel wraps – I think you were wanting to do a 360 on these? You mostly had it going really well – her commitment is looking great! My only suggestion is that you move sooner: as soon as she is past you moving to and around the barrel, you can tuck in behind her and move up the line to complete the 360. You were tending to wait until she was halfway around before you moved forward, so you were a little in her way (which might be why it felt weird :))
Also, on these 360s and the rocking horses, you can totally add your verbal directionals! Her commitment is looking good, so adding the verbals will help build the understanding of those too.
Tunnels – She is showing lovely value here too! On each rep – be sure to start with a clean start: line her up, get her ready, then send. On the first rep, she was not ready, you two were just arriving near the tunnel when you said the cue and she didn’t take it. You were clearer with the start of the rep on the 2nd rep and she was great! After each rep, take the heartbeat to line her up, connect with her, then send. It was much nicer when you took her collar for a moment – that got both of you in the zone for the next rep.
And, because she seems to really love the tunnel now: you can be consistent with calling her back to your hand and reward with a cookie, to line up for the next rep -when you did that, she was great! And calling her back to you hand for a cookie will convince her to not try to go throug the tunnel on the way back.
I think she is ready for you to try the threadle side entries and add the threadle word too!
You did some barrels at the end – and she is very focused on your hands for those. So, try to send around the barrel and toss a toy to the other side when she goes around it. She learns a lot through reward placement. For example, her tunnel sends are really strong, because reward has consistently been placed out away from you, on the other end of the tunnel. I think we need ti mirror that for the barrels: tossing the reward out to the other side of them, to convince her that leaving you is the best thing on the barrels 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>> I don’t think she has a reward marker for taking food from my hand because it’s never been much of a thing.
Today is the day! Yay!
>> I guess it’s time for Dellin to get some additional markers now that food is more of a thing that looks like a reward.
Yes LOL even if it is not a better paycheck than a toy, we can mark it specifically because that can help build it up too!
On the video: these are looking really good!!
>> I had changed to the very highly prized frisbees then and found that I needed to back off a little on the difficulty.
Ah yes, frisbeeeee is LIFE! Plus, frisbee elicits a behavior that is neither serpy or threadley, it tends to elicit run outs LOL! I am sure you can add the frisbee back soon though.
2 little details about mechanics:
For the threadles, try to have your threadle arm up for a second or two before you start the verbal. that is mainly because she will be releasing on motion of the arm if the two come together and not learning the verbal, specifically. Same with the serp arm. Having the arm in position separately from the release will make it easier to add more motion, as you start to mov emore and more around the jump.
Also, hold your threadle arm and upper body position til she arrives at the toy, so there is no shoulder rotation getting built into the default jump commitment – you were releasing your shoulders and turning forward for some, and using your hand as a ‘check mark’ on other reps. The hand as ‘check mark’ is less obvious than shoulder rotation, but we don’t want to build in her waiting for your hand to move in order to go commit to the jump – basically, when she hears the threadle verbal and see your arm come up, we want her to shove you out of the way and go do the threadle LOL! You were great about leaving your serpentine arm up and shoulders in serp position the whole time, so it is the same idea but with the threadle arm.
>.And at the end I tried putting in the beginnings of motion. Then we did a few serps at the end of the session.
>>She previously had some trouble going back and forth in the same session with these 2 different concepts (threadle and serp), so I was happy with this.>>
She was great! It is really normal for dogs to have trouble going back and forth, but she was great! And she really has the in-and-out action of the serpentine looking great!
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! I am glad he is feeling good!
He definitely looked excited to be doing this! He was smart though – he actually seemed to ‘catch’ himself rushing (especially when the toy was involved), slipping a little – and he thought through the footwork to get the balance back without having to reduce the speed. THAT is a cool thing to see with a baby dog! And he did really well with the middle jump moving out. That is about as far as the middle jump needs to go for this setup (any further and we need o change the verbal for the entry bump) so you can increase the challenge a bit by moving the middle jump back in a little and angling the 2 outer bumps towards it so you have a shorter distance center-to-center on the bumps. We are looking for a bounce and less reaching with his front end, so maybe 5 feet center-to-center is the sweet spot? If not, 4 feet (or 4.5 feet). That distance might change as he matures, so we can adjust things as he develops even more power 🙂
Great job! See you tomorrow night!!
TracyGood morning! I am having much jealousy that your snow melted! I live in the warm, sunny south and we have 2 inches of snow and ice on the ground. Ewwww!
Great job with the concept transfer here: Dice was fabulous, of course. Hooray! He is on FIRE for that toy!
On the one rep where he didn’t commit, it might be that you never stepped forward with your dog-side leg? When you switched sides after that, you stepped forward perfectly with the dog side leg (right leg on that side) and he had zero questions even though you were leaving super early (and early is good!)
He only seemed to have only one other question – on the very last rep, he jumped up at your arm as you sent him. It might be that you were blocking the wing a little (hard to see from this angle) but also it might be that you were too quick to send and that broke connection (jumping up at the handler’s arm is a classic response to disconnection). So after the line up to reset, take a heartbeat to look at his eyes, then send. You did a great job with the resets here – resetting to line up is HARD when the pup is on fire for the toy, but you nailed them and I think this last one just needed a heartbeat of connection before the send.Since this went so well, you can add more distance between you and the wing. You can also transfer the wing to other games: the handling combos and the rocking horses! FUN!!!!
Great job here!!!! Fingers crossed for now more snow so you can keep working these skills outdoors!
Tracy
Good morning!
Very nice session here!!Yes, starting stationary was a good refresher then the slooooooow walking on the 3rd rep was perfect. Clicks/treat for you for being able to have the self-control to move that slowly and smoothly, it is harder than it looks!!! After that got established, the session was smooth sailing that you repeated on the new side. The new side (left turns) seemed harder for her on the first couple of reps but then she was great with those too. Super nice!
You can move onwards to adding more speed on the serps – I liked how the ‘warm up’ of you being stationary helped her, so definitely warm up again like that again and start off moving really slowly, then add in a tiny bit more movement. (And keep tossing in a few ‘catch’ rewards too 🙂 ) As you do add more motion, keep your shoulders/upper body frozen in serp position until after she has arrived at the MM so you don’t relax your upper body after the click. We don’t want to build the habit of the upper body turning forward at all, as that will pull her off the next serp line when she is on jumps.
You can definitely play with adding the threadles in too, but when you add the threadles be sure to use your wings – at least a wing on the entry side if not on both sides. That wing will be a big, helpful visual and I don’t think she will ever see a threadle on a wingless on a real course (or, at least not on a course that any of us would actually run!) The big visual of a wing will help her set up the turns needed for the threadle. I like to use wings on serps too, but I think we also see serps on wingless jumps sometimes so she will get used to seeing both wings and wingless on serps.
Great job here!!! Have fun adding the threadles!
Tracy
Good morning! You ladies have been busy!!!
I know you’ve been doing obedience and agility foundations along with DON’T BITE THE MOMMA 🙂 …. tell me more about flyball!! It is a hoot 🙂 One of my flyball peeps is starting an amazing foundation class online that you should take. Even if you never want to actually play flyball, the foundations and proofing are AMAZING in how they apply to all other sports. (And then of course we will get you playing flyball because it really is so much fun and after the pattern is learned, requires much less training than the other sports.)
Backing up is looking good! You can start her on her little platform/destination so she remembers it right off the bat. I think you can also add some arousal at this point, to help her remember her coordination when she is a little more excited – will she tug go back and forth between for and toys? A little bit of tugging between reps (with food rewards for backing up) can help her stay balanced and coordinated even when she is ramped up 🙂 You might have to shorten the distance for backing up if she might forget how to use all her legs when she is excited 🙂 but she looked ready for this!
Countermotion: the singing is cracking me up LOL!
This is not a double fail, I could see the prop and you were not tooooo bad about eating early LOL
And yes, if you are far from the prop, don’t leave as early for now, especially on the right turns (see below). Or, if you want to leave early, be closer so she only has one variable to deal with (distance OR motion, not both).Interestingly, as things got harder, she went to turning to her left (is she a lefty in flyball?) when she should have been turning to her right based on your position. At 1:13 she turned right but had a question. At 1:20 and 1:25, you were moving a little faster so she turned left. It is correct to reward those anyway, but you will also want to tweak your setup so that she turns to her right there rather than left. More room will help (it is possible that the space was small on the right turn side so there was ‘pressure’ to turn left) so you can move the prop further away from you laterally so it is more spacious on the right turn side. If she continues to turn to her left, get closer to the prop and move slowly so you can make right turns much easier. My Contraband was a very strong lefty when he was the same age as Chata, so I broke down the right turns a lot of help him feel to joy of turning right. He is still a strong lefty in flyball but pretty balanced in agility.
Do you have a reward marker for “cookie in hand”? Rather than ‘yes’, you can now switch to that – skip ahead to Week 7 and look at the “Let’s Talk About Reinforcement” discussion so you can see what I mean. The more we add reward markers, the easier it is for the pups to learn the skills 🙂 She is definitely ready for that too.
Excellent work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
