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Hello, welcome back! I am looking forward to seeing you both! Fingers crossed for a speedy recovery from the spay and then back in action, you’ll have plenty of time to catch up 🙂
Tracyhi!
>>He does LOVE his balls….hmmm…not sure that came out just right….hahaha!!!
Ha! I was totally right there with you LOL
>>And yes, these teeters were without a target. I think we’re going to take a little break from teeters for a week or two. As you said his is pretty awesome and I/we are obsessing over those last couple of inches. He’s definitely a dog that likes to let stuff simmer awhile. His weaves were that way. We struggled with helping him find his rhythm…got close, took a couple of weeks off and inside the first session back he “had it”. Anyway….. have a great 4th.>>
Yes! I am a big fan of letting things percolate and taking time off 🙂 He looks great!
T
Hello and welcome! So happy to see you and Peeka here! No worries about anything you didn’t get to from the previous classes, I am confident you and Peeka will be great 🙂
TracyHi!
>>As you work on the tight blinds, a way to help him understand the turning is to do the blind then run away and reward across your body. So in this instance the toy would be in your left and you would run, showing him the toy in your left, and keep running til he caught up to you.
>>I’m a little confused on this – can you give another example?Here are some visuals of what I mean with the rewards:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5bHr6WBq3g>>So he has very little commitment – he will take the front side so fast it’s ridiculous so I’ve compensated by overhandling that.
Start my moving up the line to the center of the bar then gradually work up to getting further and further across towards the exit wing.
And balance every 1 threadle with 4 or 5 front sides and backside pushes, so he doesn’t go all threadle-obsessed on you.>> Can I try your above suggestion and give an example video?
Sure!
Hi! She did well on these courses!
Course 1:
On the opening, you were a little too far across the line 2 to 3 at :04 & 31 – you can see her turning on landing between the 2 jumps. We have an even better view of it at 1:03: you can run closer to the inside wing of 2 and run right on her line so she starts setting up the turn before takeoff and has less push back to 3 on landing.Good blind 4-5 on the first run! and at :35 and also at 1:07! Nice!
Weaves – After watching these, I think it could be an inexperience thing: her struggles could be the visual distraction of the other obstacles and/or lack of experience of these entries with all that speed – but she started to get it really nicely, so she was definitely ‘seeing’ them and finding them really well!
After the weaves, when she was passing the tunnel at :52 and 1:19: I think that was also a young dog moment – the tunnel there turns the dog away so it feels weird for her to take it, plus you disconnected a bit to get up the line (especially at :52). With a little more support and experience, you will be able to run that line the way you wanted to here 🙂
The FC at the end of the course at 1:23 started on time… but finished late because of the rotation. It is a good spot to try the blind there 🙂
Course 2 – On this opening, you can send to 2 from further across the bar so you can get ahead better and stay off her landing line 2-3.
Then over 5 at 1:42 you can tighten it a tiny bit more by deceling more and not turning your shoulders to the wing to commit her. But since it is REALLY hard to decel and kind of freeze there – the other option is to continue moving through a spin! You had the time to do it and I think it will make the turn perfect.The blind at 1:56 looked really good! we will be timing the difference later this summer – but my guess is the blind is faster here – your running line was a little wider than on the FC but she accelerated through it really nicely!!
As you finished out this course, you had a little too much pressure pushing back into her line at 1:58 so she dropped the bar as you were pushing her hard – you can push hard and stay on a tight line there right next to the wing, or have her exit the tunnel on your left side and do a blind between the 2 jumps.
Great job here! She looks great and I am glad she is figuring out the weave entries!!
TracyHi there! Great job on this one! Here are some ideas for you:
I like that you played with getting the turn 4-5 (jump to tunnel) on the opening line). You were early on the BC 4-5 (you did it before he landed from 3) at :05 and at :57 (he had not yet landed from 3). Definitely better timing on it at :16 and even better at 1:05! A little more decel would make it more perfect plus more experience with him seeing tight blinds. As you work on the tight blinds, a way to help him understand the turning is to do the blind then run away and reward across your body. So in this instance the toy would be in your left and you would run, showing him the toy in your left, and keep running til he caught up to you. That really helps the dogs learn to love turning on these blinds 🙂 Let me know if that makes sense.
I was thinking “well maybe the FC would be better” but nope – he wider on the FC at :29 plus your position was not a good, and you ended up running backwards a bit which sent him wider. So – blind cross! That brings up the question of how you can get there a step or two soon to have time to decelerate into it… so let’s look back at 1-2-3 🙂
I bet you can get there sooner if you left #2 sooner. You were giving a big send/step to commit him (almost too much at :14, he went wide there) and that was delaying your exit up the next line. He pulled the wing a :54 because you were still on landing side as he was taking off.
So to leave sooner there, think of it as more of a parallel path backside line and less of a push or send: lead out less but allll the way across #2 – release and move forward to your line with a lot of connection and give the backside cue with as minimal of a ‘step’ as you can do – he should propel away to the backside and then you just run forward. That will easily get you up the next line even more. I try not to use ANY step in these situations: just connection and verbal.
I think you can help him get his weave entry by staying chill til he is in and still have a ton of time to get where you need to be for the next part. And while he is weaving, you can stay on the weave entry side of the tunnel and get a BC between 8-9 or get tighter RC (more pressure between the 2 jumps to get him to turn on the takeoff of 9 rather than landing of 9 as he did at :43 and 1:18. You had the tunnel as 10 here but it is actually 12 🙂
>>When we did get to the end of the course there was no way I could push him to the backside of the second to last jump so I just let him take it straight on>>Ha! I was double checking the map to see if I remembered it incorrectly LOL! You have options to get that backside: hang back a little closer to the tunnel to serp the jump after it from closer then push to it, or do a BC on the landing side of the jump and push to it from the other side 🙂
On Course 1 – GREAT run! Super nice opening, nice job on the blind 4-5! I nthe next set of courses/sequences, we will be working a bit of ‘brake’ hand to help sweeten up that turn on 8.
He weaves really well here can you decel and stick closer to the tunnel entry so you don’t run past it then lose ground running back – it is a good independent skill for both Kip and Emmie. And nice blind at 1:48! The more we get you happy on those tighter blinds, the more comfy you will be doing them on the tight lines. Yay!Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi there! Nice work here!!!
Everything looked really good, just a couple of little details to smooth out parts where he had questions:
On the first sequence, you can use a jump cue for the jump after the right turn tunnel exit – you were quiet and stationary so he was not sure if he should power to it or not. You had good timing on your right verbal! In the smaller spaces, you can be closer t the tunnel then peel away, so you can keep moving – that way he will match the motion and not ask if you want him to decelerate.
2nd sequence:
>> I think he missed the first backside to the tunnel because I was too far over and blocking his view of the wing.>>It was hard to see your exact position relative to the wing, but it looked good to me. When he took the front side at :37, I think it was more that you broke connection as he landed from jump 1 and was still behind you – you looked forward and indicated forward, so he took the front (that is where your shoulders were pointing). Compare to the connection you had at :53 – nice! When he landed, he saw more connection and less pointing forward and had no questions as to which side to take.
On the first tunnel exit, you can rotate and give the verbal sooner (you were moving forward as she entered at :56) He turned nicely on the exit but I don’t want to dilute the Go exits by having him turn tight when you are moving forward.He turned left over 4 back towards the tunnel – it looked like you might have been a little bit on the rear cross line, so maybe turn to the fence sooner at :58 and be further across the line to the outside wing? He might have also been anticipating a bit because it makes more sense to go back towards the tunnel than it does to jump out to the fence LOL!
Super nice opening on the last run and also the timing was much earlier on the FC at the tunnel – YAY! You can do the FC and keep calling him there, rather being quiet til you see him. He does like noise LOL!
You also moved away up the line better to 4 at 1:28 and the turn was really nice, setting up a nice ending line too!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>I’m such a slacker!! I’m on page 3 in this forum …. It’s not for lack of training, either. Always things to work on….>>
You are totally not a slacker! It is a busy forum plus training time doesn’t always leave time for video editing and posting LOL!
>>I’ve been adding more and more independence skills to the weaves for Differ. And my homework for Pose from the seminar was to get more distance skills in the weaves. I had already started working on counter motion with Pose while she is in the weaves and she’s getting really good at that. I have no video of her. The deer flies are HORRIBLE right now and when it’s not 95 degrees and high humidity, there are deer flies.>>
Awesome! And yes, the heat plus humidity plus BUGS have made training an early morning adventure for me – and we are still 10-15 degrees cooler than you are (so odd that MN is so much hotter than VA!)
>>Here is Differ with some pulling away in the weaves. This was a pretty hot day… she even got hot.>
She was a rockstar, of course! You made it a little bit harder (maybe on purpose?) by staying relatively calm with your motion and then exploding away right as she entered. She didn’t seem to mind, though! Nailed her weaves!
I am glad you did the ‘toss’ reward at the end, to keep the placement nearer the weave exit and not only on cap on the jump after it.
Because she did so well, you can change the challenge: stick very close to the first jump she was wrapping, so you are still close enough to touch it as she exits the wrap – then take one step to set the line to the weaves, and start to move away. The challenge then becomes: can you still commit to the weave entry even when the momma is showing the exit line 10-15 feet sooner? I bet she can! And that can also allow you to work up to those really hard 90 degree angles as you move away.
>>I was going to add the teeter, but we had some issues that came up where she flew off it and lost her confidence. So, I’ve been staying closer for now. I’m actually not all that close – I have some decent lateral distance. But I don’t really want to pull away or run ahead too much right now.>>
Poor girl! I agree with staying close enough for support – the teeter is such a crazy obstacle for the little dogs, so maintaining their confidence is so critical. No rush to add the teeter to the independence games at this point, and when you do we can even have targets out there to help her (the idea would be to revisit whatever you used to help teach the behavior).
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
He did well here! At the beginning, the leash tugging looked really good. When you went back to it later, he was not as strong with the leash tugging – it could have been that food was introduced into the picture, or he was hot, or both 🙂 So one thing to consider is that you might start your routine with tugging (leash or toy) then go to food as you get closer to the ring… then back to tugging at the end of the run (or sometimes as you enter the ring, he will let you know how he feels about that :)) You can figure it out by experimenting and seeing what works best. When you have tugging, the action tricks work best (and he is not strong with the nose touches, for example). When you were on food, the nose touch and precision tricks were strong but the action tricks were weaker. So that will also help you sort out his needs: ask for the action tricks when he is on the toy or leash, then when food comes into the picture, ask for the precision tricks. Over time, you will uncover the routine that works best. I personally use both food and toys in my start line pre-run routines with my dogs, it does not have to be one or the other. At the end of the run, some of my dogs go to their treats and others go to the leash/toy.
>>Couple of questions here. I feel like he’s also targeting the box that the treats are on with his feet sometimes. I am not sure if I captured any in this session. I did another brief session after and it happened twice. Should I pick a different object or just be okay with the targeting behavior. He’s got a lot of value for putting his feet on stuff.>>
Do you mean as part of the with me cue? I might just be a ‘superstitious’ behavior – as long as it is not required to get the treats, and as long as he is fine when the box is not there, then it should not be an issue.
>>I would like to incorporate him jumping into my arms into our eventual end of run routine should we ever get trialing. At what point should I start to introduce the behavior? Jumping in my arms is already heavily reinforced for both food and toys and I’d like to keep it very valuable. He’s still super stimulated by other dogs moving and has a high prey drive so I want a very quick orient back to the mama after you run skill and for it to be second nature.>>
I would work it with a 2-pronged approach:
– with the treats/toys visible or in your hand (or wherever they are now when you are training it and rewarding it at the moment), take the game on the road to as many difference places as you can. You might have to break it down in newer places or more difficult places, but that is fine to get the behavior and reward it in new places.
– at home, in the most comfy place where he is GREAT at this trick – do it with the food/toy moving out of the picture. If the food/toy is normally in your hand, put it on a table next to you. Or on the floor… then in a different room, then down the hall, etc etc. And when you get the behavior, run to the food and reward (you might have to put him down first, though haha) That way you begin to fade the food/toy off of you while still getting the behavior.When he can do that, you can send him to a wing, have him jump in your arms, reward. At first, the reward is on you and then you can fade it out in this scenario too.
>>I tried to do another small session when it cooled off because this first one, he was super hot. I had just dremeled his nails for cheese and he was mounting my leg with over arousal so I saved you from having to view that footage and it would make the video too lengthy. Any suggestions on how to modulate arousal when that happens. I tried to ask for calm stationary behaviors- like a nose touch and didn’t really have success. He could do more active behaviors which then led to more mounting.>>
Does the dremeling contribute to the over-arousal? That plus having already worked in the heat might have meant he had nothing left in the tank to have a good session, so that might be a time when you choose to not train (too much failure, potentially). If you have a situation where he is mounting, you can definitely cue incompatible behaviors such as a stationing behavior during these games: ask for an active trick then send him to his station then toss him a reward. He cannot be on his station AND humping your leg at the same time, right? If you don’t have a station, you can use a down (not ideal, but also not too difficult). And during something like dremeling, you can build in nose touches or chin rests or stationing, etc, so he can learn to modulate his internal state and won’t get caught in the over-arousal vortex. I personally stop training sessions if the dog is trying to mount me – I gently peel the dog off, give them something else to do like chill in a crate or expen, then sort out what was happening and try again when the dog is in a better arousal state. The stopping the mounting like that also serves as a bit of a negative punishment, right? Withdrawal of access to reinforcement – which suppresses the mounting behavior. But if we use that, it becomes especially important to reinforce those incompatible behaviors so the dog can make “better” decisions or have reflexive responses to the arousal that we prefer 🙂
Let me know if that makes sense! Nice work here!
TracyHi!
>>You suggested some games.
Would love to know your suggestions. Nuptse usually is not able to tug at the SL. He IS distracted
and/or is a little stressed in the ring.>>I think this game will help plus I have a whole bunch coming on Monday (and more in 2 weeks) that can help 🙂 So looking at this game first:
What in the environment stimulates him? Was it birds here, or something else? You can set up the training for these games a little differently: bring him out into the yard on leash, so the game starts from the very moment he enters the yard – that is hard! Then work on engaging with him right away – first with treats in your hands and tricks, then moving away from the treats behind him, then leash off. And yes, you’ll probably have to go for the super high value treats to get this started 🙂
The jump-on-my-back trick is so fun!! For a trial version of it, maybe have him jump over an extended leg as you are walking? It is a great high energy circus trick that you can do as you move to the start line.
He might need a different verbal for this trick – does jump mean jump the jump, or jump on your back? Or do I remember correctly that ‘hup’ is your jump cue? He was definitely a little confused (but not being distracted or naughty, more like he was guessing). In theory, the context of your position would mean on your back but the jump being right there makes it harder for him to figure out what it was.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Nice work on these, I don’t think the wheels feel off (just a couple of really difficult high speed challenges 🙂 )
Yes – opening looked great and her weaves looked fabulous! The next level challenge on the weaves is to be able to do the cross even sooner and be moving away up the next line – that way you won’t feel rushed and you can easily show the #8. That tiny bit of rushing caused you to be facing the wrong line on the first rep, but when you did not have to rush on the 2nd time, it was really easy!
Her Teeter looked really good! You released as soon as it hit the ground, so be careful that the bang doesn’t become the release if that is not what you want.
Nice BC at tunnel exit!!!
On 13, you should slice to the outside rather than wrap to the inside – the slice line is faster there PLUS it will get you further ahead for the next line. And since NZ has a win system and a lot of fast dogs, we need to always go for the winning line 🙂Nice BC while she was on the a-frame! To get a FC on the jump after the frame at :31, you would need to be further ahead and decelerating into it doing the slice on 13 will help that). You were doing the FC in high motion then didn’t make a clear connection at :32 so she read a turn to the tunnel but did not pick up the side you wanted. Good girl for saving you and getting into the tunnel when you said tunnel!!
The BC at :40 made it much easier to get the side change you wanted AND got you to good position for the RDW! A little decel while moving into the blind as she exits the a-frame will make it even tighter.
On the dog walk:
She did indeed turn left at :45 off the dog walk… but did it half way up the down ramp. She left even higher at :51. I am glad you put the mat back on and trained it! She did REALLY well with the training and the MM, adding more independence and arousal. The only thing I would add to your training is now you can run away faster and be yelling louder, like you did in the original run 🙂 And the more experienced she gets with this, the better she will execute it when she is ramped up.Question about the verbal off the dog walk:
Is Left your wrap cue or a softer left? I think a wrap cue would work better here – she seemed to be responding to left as the 90 degree turn to the weaves.About the 19-20 line:
The pie-in-the-sky goal is that the RDW will be so independent that you can do a blind cross and then do a wrap to her right on 20. That is the winning line (not the wrap to the left). Getting into the blind cross will also allow you to do a spin to get her to come through the gap and not grab the tempting off course.
The reality of the present is that you would need to do a rear cross on 20 in order to get the winning line – a decelerated rear cross so she collects and wraps (with your wrap cue). It is definitely something to practice because it is the skill that would make the difference on this course! Handle it as if the trap is not there, going for the winning line – and I bet she doesn’t get sucked into the trap 🙂Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGreat update! Sounds like both boys did really well with their independent skills! It is not easy running dogs that move at different speeds, but it sounds like you are mastering it really well. And for Buddy, you can keep throwing rewards to keep him convinced that he can blast away on the big independent lines 🙂 I don’t think he is slow – I think he perhaps is just not as insanely fast as Mookie 🙂
Great job! Thanks for the update!
TracyAwesome, thanks for posting these!
The first one was a refusal on the tire – I see 2 things here:
first, from the handling perspective, it looks like you closed your shoulders and turned away a little early. Keep your arm back and eyes on him until you are sure he is committed.
Second, from the dog training perspective – it did look like he was about to take off and then changed his mind. So it is entirely possible that he needs more commitment work (send and go) on a tire! He probably would have gotten it if it was a jump, but the tire is difference and we don’t work it enough.The 2nd refusal looked to be all handler oopsie 🙂 At :25 you sent to the jump after the weaves then before he took off for it, you left for the FC. You know how we handlers are often too late? Yeah, not this time – you were too early. If I didn’t see the judge call a refusal, I would have guessed that he ran the exact course you wanted LOL! To get the send jump, you would need to take one more step past landing of the jump after the weaves and when he lands from that jump – then send him. Then run away (at that point a blind would be easier but either would work because you would have plenty of time).
Let me know if that makes sense! We have more send stuff coming in the Skills and courses being posted on Monday, so we can work it very specifically! Enjoy the holiday weekend!
Tracy
Good morning!
Lots of good work on these videos! The weaves and teeter are definitely getting more independent, so I looked at this with an eye on getting more speed as well. You also did a lovely job staying connected to him on all of these!!
Weaves:
I think opening up the weaves for now helped him: he didn’t have to think hard and he was super successful… all of which will translate to fast and independent. You can very gradually close the weaves back up as you continue to add independence.
Some ideas from the videos:
Seq 1:
– To get more speed off the line, you can run into the lead out rather than stand still. I think he has a strong enough stay for this: ask for the stay, start to job away, release him while you are moving, and then run run run 🙂
– The weaves looked super – fast, independent and great turn back to you after the exit.
– on the turn at 4: I don’t think need the spin (it was a little late and it is probably too strong of a turn cue for him because he already turns so nicely), just send and leave, starting sooner: as he exits the weaves, you can indicate the 4 jump as a send and as he is passing you, step away to the next line. That should create a tight turn and also more speed in and out of the 4 jump.Seq 2 –
– You had more more motion on 1-2 here and got more speed. Yay!
– The weaves looked great here too!
– On 4-5 at :08, I don’t think he needs you to do more than call and run. He was on the way to you, finding the right line and not looking past it. You used the outside arm and a foot rotation, which slowed him down. Did he have questions about this line on a previous rep? To see what he needs or doesn’t need in terms of cues, you can totally let him blast off course then reward if he does… and if he does, add in a verbal cue earlier to see if that helps. We want to give him only as much as needed on the turns cues otherwise he will now be going full speed (off courses are good in training!)
– good job driving ahead after the 2nd set of poles! He is really nailing the poles regardless of the challenge.Seq 3:
– nice play at the beginning, that got more explosiveness into the first jump too!
– On jump 4, I think the slice at will be faster than the wrap (:13) and also will set up a better turn/line over 5 (you had to drive him back to 5 then ended up late with the turn cue to show the weaves at :16). In general, slices are faster than wraps (more on that coming later in the class) so always try to find the slice.
– super nice weaves with you way ahead!!Seq 4 –
– The running lead out & release I mentioned for sequence 1 would work nicely on this one too. It is a tool I used all the time to maximize speed on course with my 16″ jump dog.
– consider slicing the backside on 2 – more extension on the slice will get more speed overall and the wraps slow him down.
– an additional challenge on this sequence is to see if you can do the FC at :12 sooner, while he is still weaving – you did it when he exited so he slowed down to wait for you. If you are finished before he exits, he can speed up to chase your line.
– the send that you did to 4 at :14 was what I was suggesting for 4 on Sequence 1. It is a lot more extension for him and that is GREAT – it will be faster on course plus he will feel the of running hard and not having to collect as much. His line looked good here (and don’t worry if it appears slightly wider – that is often faster when we time it, which we will be doing in a couple of weeks)
– super nice driving the big line around the outside!
– the FC at :21 for the last set of poles was late (he was in the air you would need to be further ahead so you can start it after he lands from the previous jump. You’ll find it easier to do a blind there, because you won’t have to do a quick lower body rotation: you can just turn your upper body to connect on the new side. And the turn will be just as lovely as it would be with a FC (blinds can also produce great tight turns :))Seq 5 – I think this is a duplicate of the seq 3 video.
Teeter sequences:
Teeter #2 video is marked unavailable (YouTube likes to list them as “private” unless we tell them otherwise). Can you relist it as unlisted?Teeter #3 sequence
– nice!! He is definitely driving across the end better. He was convinced there was something at the bottom on the first rep – was there a target or leftover cookie smells? The 2nd rep on the teeter was a really strong 4on.
– nice clear releases and connections throughout
– The handling looked good. To keep maximizing speed, you can keep running to reward him so he chases you, then throw the reward – so there is a lot of running and no stopping (sorry not sorry haha) as that running fosters more speed 🙂Teeter Sequence #5 –
– he looked hot and/or tired on this one, not as perky and speedy as he was on the other sequences. If it is later in the session, you can move up to higher value reinforcement so he is more willing to step on the gas pedal 🙂
– leading out less to run into the push to the backside will also get more speed. I think we should definitely play with running starts for him! The shorter lead out and release while you are already in motion layers in a lot of speed and excitement at the start.
– On the exit of teeter into the FC and send at :12-:13-:14, he did not drive to you because you were not running hard (there was no place to run to). One thing you can do to add more speed in places where you are not able to run: you can have him drive to you then either reward at your side with a jackpot of goodies, or throw a reward past you just when he is arriving (whichever you think he will find more exciting). That way, when you are stationary, he will drive hard to you – this will add speed to the times when you will not be able to use your foot speed to stimulate more speed from him
– he chased you on the closing line really nicely! You were hustling 🙂 He likes that! So definitely building in big rewards when you are *not* hustling will help get the balance of speed everywhere on course, not just when you are running hard.Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
