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Hi!
Yes, 24″ is correct. I think that is universal now and it will be easier on the big dogs to train on 🙂T
Whoa, this is exciting! It didn’t take long at all to figure it out! Good boy!!! And I see striding beginning to develop – GOOD BOY indeed! He had to think harder on the harder angles, but I am not sure if it was that it was harder or that he was watching you move away with the toy. If toy more valuable than the MM? Perhaps!
Great job keeping this session nice and short – he is doing real weaving for now so we really can’t go longer than what you did here. I am sure you will all get sick of hearing me bug everyone about training less now that they are weaving haha!!
On your next session, work the left side send angles like you did with the right side send angles here. And you can play with throwing the toy or frizzer rather than clicking the MM. Leave the MM out there as a focal point for him, but give a verbal ‘yes’ and early toy throw. We need to fade the MM anyway, so if he thinks it is a little stupid and would rather have the toy – then that is fine with me 🙂
Do you have access to channels? If yes – work the channels so you can give him the idea of staying in a longer set. If not – use 3 bases (6 poles) of 2x2s as channels to work that track too, it will be fast and fun to work the challenges!Great job 🙂
TracyHe was a good boy here! What treats were you using? I have found that smoked salmon and peanut butter is incredibly magical LOL! He was very happy here!!!!!
Also, have you noticed a preference for one game over the other? The last time we talked about it, he was showing a preference for the downhills – so you can shift emphasis to that game a bit as we start to build things together (new games added today :)) For example, with the downhills and bang game, you can release to a toy reward more quickly and he might find that to be the BEST.THING.EVER. That is what has gotten all of my dogs who had concerns over the hump into pure teeter love – you’ll see in this week’s videos that the frizzer (or shall I say: THE FRIZZER) has come out to play with Contraband and suddenly he is ALL TEETER ALL THE TIME LET’S GO!
The reason I mention it is that he is doing really well with the uphills!! And because the other games are getting complex, you can shift focus to the downhills and bang game which can involve more toy, more running like a crazy animal (him, not you haha) and more getting the heck away from the teeter (which is also a reinforcement for teetering :))
Let me know if that makes sense! I am super happy with how he did here, so maybe we leave it be for a bit and focus on downhills and bang games. The new games are posted if you want to look and see what I mean 🙂Great job! Have fun!!
TracyHi! Nice work on these!
Downhills:
He did really well here – more tip and definitely more noise! He seemed happy to do it – no questions from what I could tell. The sending was a little harder but that is normal and to be expected. Give him another couple of high value sessions here, no changes, while shifting more focus into end position games.>.But I am starting to get a little self release when I don’t reward for the dismount soon enough or get back to the target to reward for staying in position.>>
No worries! Because there is no end position involving a stay yet in this game, he is just resetting. You can release sooner or get back sooner or use a sticky treat that he has to lick for longer – the end position will come into play soon enough.
On the targeting session:
>. He is taking stuff in during the previous session and then I leave it for a few days and bam, he’s all over it!>>
Perfect! Latent learning is a real thing! That is why I advocate training LESS so the dogs can rewire their brains in between sessions.
He did really well offering the end position here! You might have to start rewarding the releases more LOL!!!!
I think he is ready for the next step: using the plank, introduce the bang game into end position on the plank with you holding him off the the plank near the target end, give him his cue to leap into position – and if he can do it with you stationary and cuing it, then you can start to add in walking past, doing crosses, moving faster, etc.
Great job here!
TracyHoly cow, that was like an entire charcuterie board for one rep, lucky dog! I would run across a teeter too for all of that cheese LOL!!! Great job!!!!
T
Hi!
>>I had been working with him on the teeter between two things, with no tip and then with downhill tip. I thought he was catching onto the target with this, but I don’t think he has quite got it. Should I work more on the target with the plank before doing this more, or just put the cookies in place when doing the downhill?>>
Both! I agree – he was having to multitask a bit too much here so we were seeing elements of both behaviors but not quite as solidly as we want yet. On these downhill games – he is still sorting out his body and driving through the pivot, so use the downhills to really drive that by having the food out there in advance. That way he can ‘think less, teeter more’ by driving to the food, then play tug, then drive to the food – all without having to also make a decision about targeting.
You can see as the tip got bigger, he was slowing down across the board because he was thinking more about the targeting and looking up at you a bit. If the food is already there, he is likely to run more and also look at you less – so you can also add in more of the handling challenges without needing to be relatively close to be able to quickly deliver reward. We keep the food in place on the downhills for as long as the table is on the down end, and for as long as needed til he runs to the end (rather than trotting).
And, the target work can go on the plank – partially to isolate it, and partially so the target is on the ground for 2o2o. The ground is part of the prompt for the behavior, because he should always target when the board meets the ground. And then, the target position goes onto the teeter with the bang game first – then the bang game meets the downhills, when the downhill is ready to meet the ground 🙂 Let me know if that makes sense! For now, it is still pretty separate but you will see them merge together pretty soon 🙂
Great job on the plank-to-inflatable set up! He seemed very balanced on that! That will really help when the teeter has a ton of tip 🙂
Nice work!
TracyHi!
The jumping looks good on the higher bar, she is still doing a good job with striding and balance. And she is definitely catching onto the catch rewards 🙂 Yay! One little detail: after the catch, reset the sit properly so she can have good form here. When you didn’t reset her, she ended up a little too far and with split front feet like at 1:11, so the form was not as good and she was shorter over the bars. The next step is to give this a couple of days off to percolate in the brain and rest those muscles… then do everything the same with a toy instead of the TT. That will help teach her to maintain form even when things are more stimulating!On the wraps – great job emphasizing the connection on the exit!! You don’t need to stand up as long as you can still run when you are rewarding with the arm across the body 🙂 You can also go to a long toy and drag it, so you can be a bit more upright if that is more comfortable for running.
I see what you mean about her turning better to her left than to her right. That could just be a side preference, which is pretty normal – a physio can give you good games to balance that. I like to do SLOW bends/cookie stretches/circles as well as SLOW leg weaves – I mention slow because most people train their dogs to spin and bend and leg weave fast which actually has nothing to do with proper form.
You can take the wraps into the other games now! Great job here 🙂
TracyHi! This is also going really nicely! She is showing much happier drive to the very end of the board. Nice!!! One small detail – as you ask her to get on the board, just give a general giddy-up type of cue rather than her dig dig cue which might name the end position. We don’t want to use the end position cue yet, because she is not end positioning 🙂 And there is no need for the end position when the board is that high up, she would just be shifting her weight there in that moment and not assuming a position yet.
So just keep letting her run up, eat the things, then ask her to hop off the side (rather than leap off the bottom as that will make it harder to convince her to do target position when we put it all together soon :))We are starting to see really nice weight shift here!! Leave the 4 inch tip in place for several more sessions using crazy high value rewards and some tugging/ball play before and after – and when she can do the weight shift at the top of the board consistently just like she did on that last rep… then add a little more tip 🙂 This is going really well!!
Great job on these! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! She did really well driving across the wobble even with all the added arousal of the tug. Yay! I think she needs a target for this to help prompt the behavior because right now it seems like she is targeting your foot nearer to the board or your position if you run past. The target will give a frame of reference to drive to so she can do it all without you, so you can add more sending and rear crossing. When you tried sending ahead even with the toy out there, she was confused. and turned to you.
Going back to the collaborative process of finding the end position – She was offering the down a lot here and you were waiting for the down on reps where it was not as immediate – so that might be the final end position you choose! And that is great – you can isolate it and train it so that she is 100% clear that is what you want for her end position. And it is an easy behavior to target, which means it will be easy to prompt the behavior and also to fade the target. Yay!
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Good mechanics here at the beginning! She did well leaping onto the end and seemed quite confident! Was there a target on the board (I think there was? But maybe not?) If not – add one in so she looks at your hand less. This is a good one to add the ball to as well to get the quick back and forth from food to toy to food as you add in end position.Even as you add in driving ahead, start super close to the end of the board and don’t stop moving until you are 2 more steps past the moment she stops. You were starting her pretty far back on the last couple of reps so she was slowing down going into position rather than landing right in it and this game is all about riding the end of the board down 🙂
>>seeing those “forearms” get prone against the teeter and the chest lowers….and sometimes she goes into a full down.>>
Now is the time to decide exactly what you want – a couple of different things were rewarded here. To down or not to down, that is the question LOL!! One thing to consider is the feedback from the dog. If she finds one behavior more intuitive over another, then you can go with it as the ‘chosen’ end position. For example, with Hot Sauce (my medium sized black dog) – I had started training a 4on position but she insisted that it didn’t make sense to her and just kept offering 2o2o despite no training of that position. So rather than fight with her or tell her she is wrong… I accepted her feedback, moved to a 2o2o and it has been GREAT! So if Sundae says standing/digging at the end is better/clearer/more intuitive, go with it. But if a bow or the down is very intuitive for her – go with one of those. But either way, choose one very specific multi-layered behavior and reward only that, otherwise we will confuse her. Then we install it on the bang game, and it is clear sailing 🙂
Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
I know, this obstacle is soooo complex to get it exactly how we want it 🙂 But it is fun to work all the elements!One detail on structuring the downhills from the table to really maximize speed: be more systematic about having her start on the table, get revved up, then run down the board. If she starts on the ground and has to jump on the table then go down the board, she will be slowing downshifting back at the top of the board/table to balance after leaping on, then accelerate again – so she won’t have enough time to go full speed again – so always start her on the table and not leaping onto the table, so she can explode down the board directly.
I think she is doing really well with confidence coming down the board!>> Today, for our session on downhill, I also brought out the Red Bomb…her favorite ball in the whole world. It excites her so much, that she is literally vibrating head to toe as she stares at it. You’ll see I initially have trouble getting her to eat the treat at the end of the teeter.>>
For this game, it is really important that she eat the treats 🙂 So the red bomb might be too exciting for now, until you can get her to eat the treats – separately from the teeter, make getting the ball contingent on swallowing the treats (I say swallow because some dogs are so talented at putting the treat in their mouths and then spitting them out LOL!!) And then you can take it to the teeter but slow it down, to be sure that part of the criteria is eat the food in the presence of the ball – then release and throw. I had to do this with the Contraband and the frisbee – he didn’t give a hoot about even the highest value food in the presence of The Most Supreme Frizzer LOL!
Convincing her that eating the treats is the gateway to the ball will have a double whammy effect:
first, it helps build teeter love 🙂 And second, it actually will build value for doing the behavior at the end in the face of something more exciting:
ball is more exciting than food, but you gotta do the food in order to get the ball. That develops this nicely:
Running into the tunnel is more exciting than stopping at the end of the board, but you gotta stop at the end of the board in order to get the tunnel.>>…and I’m trying to get a clear picture of what I’m asking for her at the end.>>
At the moment, the food is prompting the stop. On the downhlls, we are just working the run across the board to the end rather than stopping at the pivot, so the only thing she has to do at the end is eat and stay there til you ask her to jump off. That also has the nice by-product of the weight shift. No end position needed yet (we install the end position when the board is going to the ground, because the ground helps prompt that behavior)
>>I slowed down the video and I can see she is driving and “crouching”…and then she stands back up…is the driving/crouching that I see there enough for the end behavior I want…or do I hold out for more crouch and even a down…like she gives on the wobble board>>
I love the drive then weight shift you are getting, you can really see it in slow motion 🙂 Very cool!!!
As for the standing back up? That is not a problem because there is nothing else to do there at that moment. Now, you can develop end of board criteria that includes a down – holding the crouch is not as clear because the crouch/weight shift is probably more reflexive than actively chosen. I have no problem if the dog stands up when the board hits the ground – but as soon as the dogs realize that a release to the next obstacle is part of the game, they usually don’t get totally relaxed, you will see them ready to spring into action 🙂Great job on this game! More thoughts on end position below 🙂
TracyHi there, hope you had a great weekend!
Looking at the set point first:
I think the set point went fine in terms of mechanics and it was good to try it out with the food rewards. The first rep on the first video was a little too chill, but then you started her a little closer to the first jump, and plus she got a little more jazzed up (trying to cheat on the stay a little LOL!). The reps with the toy play in between (and the cheese rep on the 2nd video) were more exciting for her. For the set point… that was perfect 🙂 She was balanced and thinking about mechanics – we don’t need her to be more drivey on the set point, it should be a bit chill 🙂 So keep rewarding the stay, and incorporating the high value food. You can move the food target further away, as that might help her extend even more – food tends to calm jumping mechanics a bit. I think she did well driving to the toy, though, so you can totally work it in too!On the smiley face… we don’t need this to be chill at all, this can be wilder 🙂 Wheeee! It is mainly a connection game for us humans.
So looking at the 2 videos – she was not being naughty when she was grabbing the toy (trust me, I would tell you if she was LOL!) and her questions about which side to be on and whether or not to take the wing were about connection. Baby dogs are very literal so we have to be pretty perfect with connection. Here are some specifics then general ideas after it.Most of the reps on both videos were really lovely! I will point out the loveliness alongside the question moments, so you can see what created lovely versus what created questions 🙂
That first rep on the first video was really nicely connected – try to reward sooner when things are going right rather than keep going and risk an oopsie 🙂 Let’s look at the moments when she had questions and opinions:
On the first video:
The toy came out so at :42 she was faster (yay!) which presents a connection challenge – You got good connection on the tunnel exit, but then pointed forward while she was still behind you plus you were moving laterally away from the wing – so she was not sure what to do. Pointing forward when the dog is behind us changes the line of our shoulders, so they read a turn or sometimes a blind cross. That happened at 1:00 (you can see her look up at you with a question there)Compare it to the send at :54 where your arm was lower and didn’t point forward til she was nearer to you, then the really GREAT connection on the exit of the FC – lovely! She had no question there.
At 1:25 as she exited the tunnel, you were pointing forward and she could only see your back, so she wasn’t sure where to be so went to the toy side. Something similar happened at 1:42, where you got really good connection on the tunnel exit, but then before she could make a decision you pointed forward so she blind crossed (which is actually what the beginning of a blind would look like)
Compare that to 1:53 – such nice connection on the tunnel exit! And you were lower with your arm and smoother/later with the swoosh forward (she was committed to the correct side) – lovely! And also lovely connection on the exit and the tunnel send at 1:56. YAY!
Looking at the 2nd video –
You were really emphasizing your connection at :15 – great! Also great at :30!
She had a question at 1:05 – you got connection but then sent with a high arm and you were moving laterally away from the wing like at :42 on the first video. So try to maintain the connection and run forward to the wing.
Compare it to 1:30, much better connection and line!
And the last big run had good connection and good lines so she got it 🙂So – it is all about intensifying the connection, for longer – because she is so young, we have to exaggerate it. When she exits the tunnel, make eye contact with her as you continue to move forward (she won’t look back at you – eye contact is used to get your shoulders on the line you want and to open up which side you want). Then keep your arm low and connection strong until she is passing you, then your arm can move forward but keep it nice and low. Pointing forward to the jump when she is behind you will look like a blind cross so if she ends up on the wrong side of you – you can reward it because you probably cued her to do it 🙂
When she blind crossed and took the toy – she likely thought it was a legit “nailed it!” moment and thought you were rewarding her LOL!! Not a naughty moment – in fact, that is pretty universal that young dogs will do that when we disconnect (I have certainly done it – I think I left some of the disconnects in the demo videos too :))>>oday I left the toy inside and brought out the cheese and tried to engage with cheese first. I like these results better. May try this for a couple days before I bring out the toy again?>>
You totally can use food for this – I thought you were having an easier time emphasizing your connection when you were using food rewards. And then when you are comfy with the connection (personally, I have found that connection feels really uncomfortable with young dogs!), go back to the toy – that will challenge you to be able to connect while things are moving faster 🙂
Let me know if that makes sense! You two are doing a grea job 🙂
Have fun!
TracyGood morning!
He did really well here! I am glad he is enjoying this. More than birds? That is IMPRESSIVE and speaks volumes about how much reinforcement you have put into it. Yay!!!
I think he had to sort things out on the first couple of reps, he was a little slower and looking at you more. He was accurate and not looking for the pivot, so it was more like he needed to figure things out. To help him, you can start with a little dab of cheese on the target already – and you can mix that in during the session too, to keep reminding him to drive right there and look down and not at you. I mix that in sometimes to help the dogs NOT watch me 🙂
As the session progressed, he got more and more confident – faster down the board and more to the target, looking at you less. You can toss that treat back to between his front feet (rather than go over and feed him from your hand) Yes, he might leave position when you do that, so use your verbal cue so he knows it is ok to do so (I use ‘catch’) And sometimes you can praise then release forward for his toy!
You will see this game added today, and it has a few more ideas too 🙂 For the next session, I don’t suggest changing anything. He needs a couple of sessions of this before we make it crazier 🙂 But you can add the other games in too! They will be posted shortly.Great job! Have fun!
TracyGood morning (or afternoon for you? LOL!
These sessions look really good.
On the channels:
This was a good width of the poles for him – he could still run but had to think about bending more on the entry especially on the left side sends, where he would previously drift out to the opposite side of the channels. Compare :38 where he was all like “WHOA! I need to work harder to stay in the channel” at the entry with 1:34 where he prepared *before* he entered and stayed in a lot better :). Good boy, good adjustment!!!
He did really well on the various challenges you presented – right side seems easy for him, the left side sends require more work to bend. So on your next session, add in the harder angles on both sides but especially the left side so he can really work that set up before the entry.2x2s – he was really great finding all the angles and didn’t mind any of your motion either. Excellent!! Yes there was the one RC moment at the end where he didn’t bend, but I think that was not a big deal and will go away when the 2nd set of poles are there.
>> I watched the video today about adding the second set of poles. Do you think we are ready for that?>>
100% yes! The next step is to add poles 3 and 4 with that base wide open (3&9). And because that is a big variable to add, the base with poles 1 and 2 should open up a little, I’d say back to 1&7 for him. Now, because he has some experience here already with weaving, it is likely that you will be able to angle the 2nd base pretty quickly to 2&8, then 1&7. So this might move along pretty quickly – but that 2nd base is a great distraction for all the hard angles, so work those before you angle too much.
Great job! Have fun!!
Tracy
