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Good morning! Everything here is looking super good, so the ideas are mainly about things you can add 🙂
Plank work with the cookie looked good at the beginning, he was a little of balance – he actually was better at turning around with the toy, perhaps because his center of gravity was lower and the arousal didn’t distract his body awareness. Then when you went back to the cookies later, he was much better balanced when turning. Yay! You can add in the full 360s turns in the center of the plank, away from you (which is probably easiest) then towards you (which is often harder for the dogs)
Do you have 2 tables so the board can be even higher now?Toy races – very straight and fast! And the parallel line was really spot on.
Since he is doing this from a stay, 2 ideas for you:
You can do less and less of a lead out (you only had one step) until you are actually behind him – this challenges him to maintain his drive forward even as you are progressively further and further behind (planning ahead for those massive ending lines of big courses in his future :))
And then you can do the reverse: Take longer lead outs, and see if he can still beat you to the toy 🙂Blinds – thse are looking really good!!! You even got the double in really nicely! Yes, keep reminding yourself to keep your arms in tight to help build the habit. The other thing you can do is to throw the toy out ahead and do this as a toy race, blind cross combo where you release, do a blind, then continue driving to the toy (this will be HARD because he will have to focus on the handling and not just the running :))
Wobble board: really nice setup! It was challenging but also easy enough to build a lot of confidence and success. You were nice and low and so was his head – perfect! You can also use a tug toy for this, either releasing him forward to tug (that’ll be easy) or going to him to tug while he is in position on the wobble board (harder but great for weight shift training for the teeter!)
Question: do you have reward markers such as ‘get it’ for when he can release forward to a reinforcement versus when to take it from your hand or a marker that says “stay there, I am tossing the treat to you”? Same for toys and the various placements. We can start building his toolbox of markers since he has so many other things in place. I mention this because you are getting some tooth hugs from him 🙂 and he might just need more clarity about where to look for reinforcement and when to NOT look at it. I have found these markers to be the most helpful thing when we are getting frustration behaviors despite super high rates of success in the sessions (and all of your sessions have been really successful!) So if you are seeing the tooth hugs even when the rate of success is really high, we can look at clarifying the reinforcement. Or if it happens when the success rate is low, we can look at how to keep the rate higher for him.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>can you use food for the backward reinforcement? I’m guessing I would need a totally different marker word for food behind? Correct?>>
Do you mean the turn back from the stay? Yes, you can totally use food! You don’t need a different word because of the context (we only leave one thing behind the dog) unless you feel silly saying toy toy for food 🙂 the only other reason for separate words would be if you were going to leave toys AND food behind him and needed to tell him which one. I don’t recommend that, though, as it is a discrimination that is very low on the priority list.
However, I do recommend you do this with toys because it is a procedure that can do into the trial ring!
>>Also, I’m having some minor surgery next week and will it be ok if Vicki takes over for me for a few days and sends in videos of Reilly’s work?
Hope it is an easy surgery and quick recovery! And yes, it is totally fine if Vicki sends in videos 🙂
Tracy
Good morning! So much great stuff here!!
Backing up – This is a good challenge for her! I would like her head lower on this one, I feel she is keeping her nose at the same levels as your hand so her head it getting a little high as she is ‘looking’ for the target. Try this sitting in a low chair or stool so you don’t kill your back, and so the reward hand can be low enough that her focal point is below her shoulders and not above.
You can also use a toy for this!
And when you get her head lower (probably just by changing your hand position) you can go to the next step, a moving target behind her 🙂 like a wobble boardYAY! The beginning tug and toy return looked great and I think it will continue to improve. She did a great job bringing it back and you were awesome about NOT taking it away from her when she did so: you played then let her have it again (a double whammy reward). Have you ever played the “Opposite Game” where you basically say to the dog “take it, go for a run, I don’t want the toy” and you keep sending her away with it… because for some reason, this toy magically strengthens the retrieve and diminishes the victory laps LOL! Moving back away from her definitely was helping her bring the toy to you 🙂 You can start adding distance and also try out the opposite game 🙂
For the parallel path game – were you feeding her bubble gum? LOL! This is going well, I have two suggestions to get her to stop looking up at you so much:
Have the cookie primed and ready to toss so it is almost immediate with the marker for the foot hit, so she doesn’t have time to look back at you – you had to move it to the toss hand which too too long, so she was looking at you.
And, since everything between the click and the treat gets reinforced, the instant cookie throws will help get rid of her looking up at you but also… get rid of the clicker (at least for now, maybe forever with this skill) – the click naturally causes the dogs to look at us, and then the looking at us can get built in no matter how fast you can toss the treat. So use a quiet “yes” or “get it” marker and toss the treat as fast as you can, no clicker needed anymore. That can get even more independence and then you’ll be able to add more distance.
Sending with the prop: This is going well, she is doing a great job leaving to hit the prop! You can drop the clicker on this one too, and also use toys if you like.
On the forward sends, you were turning your body a bit like a post turn, which is why things might have felt odd as you were moving away. The body line can be more like what you did at :27 where you were aiming more for a FC.
Also, for the countermotion element of you moving away early, begin the send with you already sideways or backwards – I think that will make the countermotion element feel smoother for you both. Her commitment looks really good, so you can definitely add the sideways and backwards sending and the countermotion 🙂
About her feeling oppressed by being touched -that is a very Border Collie thing LOL!!! The good news is her arousal has come up for the food, she was totally in work mode and was excited by it! But that also means she was in “don’t touch me, I am working” mode LOL!!! So as long as the gentle touch is then paired with action, I think she will get over it but will probably never love hugs and kisses during work LOL!!!Great job on these! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>> You are 100% correct that he learned shaping with food VERY early on….like maybe starting with sits the day he came home
I think that we are all getting more aware of the classical conditioning/associations and how much more powerful that is than good old operant conditioning (sorry Skinner, but Pavlov is kicking yer butt!). That would explain why dogs see a wing and food and start to offer wraps: conditioning response! But see a toy and a wing and start to offer stays (conditioned response). It is partially classical conditioning, and that comes about because of the use of the food or toys as reinforcement for the particular skill – which increases the classical conditioned response. It is complex, but simple LOL!!! And very intertwined, we cannot really separate them. Darn it. LOL!
>> And I never would’ve picked up on the fact that my “position/movement” was a big piece of the not understanding to “offer” when the toy was involved.
I jokingly call this the “international sign for offer me something” LOL!! Dogs are brilliant and also they have no control over the reflexive/classical response.
>>I was totally stuck on thinking that he didn’t know what to do unless there was food involved, which is right but not for the reason I was thinking.
It is more like he knew exactly what to do LOL!!! Pavlov was driving the bus there. Fascinating stuff.
>>I listened to one of Sarah Stremming’s podcasts where she and Megan Foster talk for over an hour about reinforcement procedures. It was fascinating!
This one is on my list – it is always interesting to hear what people are doing the same, doing differently, etc.
Glad you are having fun! I love geeking out over this 🙂
TracyGood morning!
>> Tug isn’t really a word I have used for anything specific, it’s more chatter then anything. I am deciding on what additional words I might need to use for both food and toys depending on the situation and ideally same word regardless of whether it is food or a toy.
Sounds good! The trend in training is to have clearer reinforcement procedures and better mechanics, and markers definitely help. Your list is a good one andI am sure you will continue to sort out which ones are useful and which ones are redundant. I don’t mind if we rely on context for some of them – between markers, cues, directional verbals, different sports… we are getting towards 100 verbal cues and we need to be sure that the pups help us out if possible LOL!! ANd I really like chatter too because that easily turns into engagement and play without toys or treats.
>>I have a question that is not strictly about the course but I wanted to see if you have any ideas.
Uh oh! Be right back, getting more coffee for this one lol
>>>Second step is putting the scent in a box and rewarding them for putting their nose to a hole we cut in the top of the box, we give them the reward at the hole to encourage them keeping their nose there. We don’t want feet on the box. For MaxPup we are getting the pups to put feet on a box or box-like object and rewarding it.
You can probably guess my question – Any thoughts on how can I make the games look different to Beka? >>>Ah yes, we do a ton of feet on things with puppies for agility and fitness. Is the scent box eventually going to always look the same in scent work? Is it a certain type of box?
I think you can make the picture different by holding the box (smaller version of it if it is a relatively big box) so the back is in your palm and the nose is facing her, and hold it at nose level or higher so feet are less of an option (sitting in a chair will probably help you do this without killing your back). Your palm could be perpendicular to the floor, similar position to hand touches and then you can eventually make your way to the palm being parallel to the floor, and lowering the box (very gradual progression over many session, and the scent will soon become the cue that it is her nose, not her feet :))How to keep her from confusing it with a nose touch to the hand? Probably just successive approximations but my guess is that the box is so salient that it won’t be a problem. You can also start with just the lid of the box, scent on the other side, and then you can feed her through the hole!
Or, tape the scent box to the wall at nose height or just above, then gradually work its way down to the floor over time.
>>I’m standing in both situations.
Eventually yes, but you don’t need to start there with a puppy.
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
These are good distractions!! You can start with the easier ones or simulate them (a bag of treats on the ground can simulate bugs lol) or make a second list of distractions you can add in at home easily.Here is the video with the teeter in it (towards the end :))
Have fun!
TracyHi! I totally understand about the joys of sticking to the easy stuff 🙂
For the toy toy cue, great question! I’ve only done this with toys for most of my dogs and their cue is toy toy 🙂 except my Papillon who loves the MM, and his cue is get it. I’m sure you could say the same word for toys and treats because the marker is more about the dog’s behavior here, but it might feel odd to say toy toy for the MM. Ha!Tracy
Hi! This was a good session to discuss what he needs for cues in some situations! He has opinions 🙂
At the beginning – 1st go out of the tunnel was valid, go means straight so he went straight, good boy 🙂
I think more motion will help this setup a lot – you were not moving a lot so he didn’t have as much info as normal to help him, and I think that bit you in a couple of places.He was asking some questions in the pinwheel (looking at you a little) – I think it was a combination of you not really moving and saying a lot of “over” as the cue. “over” is a little too general and he needed more specifics. Yes, you had some over left at :16 and over right at :37, but I think dropping the ‘over’ from those will help him – otherwise he will have to wait to you say whatever is after over, ignoring the over, because it could be over left, over right, over go. So skipping the over part and using left/right/go etc will help him go faster and ask fewer questions. A good example was at :56 where there was not a lot of motion and you said over… and he slowed down and looked at you as if saying “over then what?” LOL!
Compare that to your get outs which were consistently really good and your wraps – those verbals only have the specific cue and he responded accurately and with speed 🙂
About the tunnel threadle:
There are 2 cues involving tunnels, and I think that is what his question was about: go tunnel is take the one that is on the line and on the dog side arm. Your tunnel threadle word means take the other end with the other arm.
You had his attention at :59 (not sure what you said) and probably could have kept moving with the outside arm but then you went back to original arm and said go tunnel – so he went back to the original tunnel entry. You pulled more with motion at 1:22 with more outside arm and less go tunnel and he got it. I like to keep the outside arm and threadle cue going all the way through to when the dog gets into the tunnel, I never add a tunnel or go tunnel verbal to a tunnel threadle because it might be the source of confusion, like Spot’s questions here.>> I was doing something on the right turn reps that pulled him off the 3rd jump in the pinwheel
I think it was a combo of lack of motion and position and he was getting tired at 1:40ish when he was not committing as well. And at 2:23 and 2:29 – your change in motion (decel) and position near the wing with a little disconnection looked like it might have been a threadle cue – so could very well have been trying to threadle. Smart boy! So more motion and connection up the line should smooth that out.
Nice job here! I am glad you are finding this stuff useful for trials! Hope to see you in person sometime soon!
TracyHa! I feel this same struggle – she doesn’t have to slow down… but you do 🙂 Welcome to Team Fake Chill, where we pretend we are calm so we can move slowly LOL!
Hi –
>>I think I had him too close to the wings. He was a bit conflicted about needing to offer wing wraps. I will slightly increase the difficulty.>>
Plan exactly what behaviors you will ask for – no freestyling or improv. He does not like that.
>>In my mind, I would like the end of run routine to look like a catch into my arms, put on the leash, and leave to get his toy that is placed.>>
All good – have you taught him to jump into your arms? How much value does it have?
>> I know the super high ones but I would say the least one that gets us in trouble is handler error, lack of understanding
Things on the ground (girl pee)
Scary noises (thunder, gunshots, fireworks, garbage can lids)
Moving/running animals (other dogs, wild life)
livestock (not that we see this often but sheep and ducks are LYFE)
Bodies of water>>Ok what are thee last distracting? This list is all really hard stuff, so what can be distracting – bag of cookies?
Handler error can also be inserted into these games.
An lack of understanding is easy – if there is anything he doesn’t understand in training – reward. Just reward. Then sort it out later. Easy!T
Good morning!
He is reading these really well! And he has GREAT stay, good boy, and good job to you for training it!! You can add challenge by moving more briskly while he is staying, building up to be able to run while he is in the stay (as long as he has a high rate of success :))The BCs looked really good – he is reading them beautifully and is also already really speedy, so you can start then sooner especially when you start to go for 2 in a row 🙂
You can also add more running of you have someone who can hold him as a retrained recall – I don’t think a cookie toss would give you enough time to out-run him for a blind anymore LOL!
As you add more and more speed, 2 things about the toy:
– you don’t need to have him see it on the first side of you, you can have it squished up in the hand ready to show after the BC.
– when you complete the blind, you can keep the toy are touching you stomach. This will rotate you just enough to show the great connection but not so much that you end up opening up your shoulders so much that it slows down your running.Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>> I used to do the double blind with my Papillion and she was a little bit slower so it was easier to get both side changes in! I will try the tucked arm as you suggest next time.
Double blinds are very doable with big fast dogs like Ronan, as long as your arms stay in super tight to your body for ultra-quickness. Jenny Damm is the best in the world at those quick double blinds!
>>(I hope you don’t mind the singing pap, lol)
I feel right at home with Papillon singing, I have 2.5 Paps LOL!! It was a lovely song of sad Papillon being deprived of training. Ha!
>>Today’s video shows the 3 different version of backing up, step 2.
He is doing a super job of finding the board with his back feet!! You did a great job getting this behavior built up already.
Only one suggestion about mechanics here: keep your cookie hands lower as he is backing up: when you raise the hands to the center of your body, he looks up which is why he was curling to the side a little and looking up high. Try to keep your cookie delivery hands at your knee level or lower, to keep his eyes below his topline (Mike would probably need to keep his hands below his knees if he is taller).
The options to do this are to remain in the bent over position so your hands don’t move up and down (but your back might get angry about that)
Or sit on a low chair or stool so your hands can remain in position without your back getting angry at us :))Interestingly, he was straightest when you working working on the balance disc in the last part of the session – probably out of necessity, because it is smaller and it moves. He was really focusing in on using his body correctly there – NICE!!! You can add a moving wobble board to this and since he is already doing so well… tug toys! He would back up and tug in position, or back up then be released forward to the toy.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyYay! Great news that he was such a good boy at the trial! I know it is hard to get video, but I am glad you got so much success!!
TracyGood morning!
The Bathroom training looked good – you were able to get the tugging going after a tiny bit of head turn back to you with it. It is a good start!I think, for now, I would put on a more informal cue or just make silly noises and tap the floor – don’t add ‘get it’ in this context yet til the behavior is stronger, if ‘get it’ is something you will end up using as a reinforcement marker.
Also, because she is a teething baby dog… switch toys to something less chewable – The rubber milker? Tennis ball? Anything that will be less interesting to chew on 🙂
One more thing – it might have been too long of a session because then she just wanted to lay down and chew. The retrieve is not a really exciting behavior yet (in her mind :)) so for this behavior, you might not want to do 2 minutes in a row but rather do one or 2 reps then be done and try again later – that can also prevent her from wanting to chew on it.
Send game – This is also going really nicely!
One question: what does tug mean, exactly? Is it a keep going cue for tugging? Get it should mean tug and you might find that it is better to pair praise or something like ‘ready ready’ or silly noises with the tugging, rather than the word tug, like you did at :28 and after it . I am thinking ahead to building value for words and chatter, for when you won’t have a toy available.The camera visit was interesting – I don’t think it was the wrong word (get it could apply in that context) but it might have been that she was startled to see the camera there, for whatever reason.
But she came backed and finished with a lovely rep!
>>Is tossing the toy ok on this game given toy races are off limits for now with Beka? A long toy might be hard to manage when we get to try the full game. try tossing treats instead (i wouldn’t use a bowl to target in case it puts her off)>>
I don’t want her to learn to get faster about grabbing the toy and running off with it, and I agree that a long toy might require a 3rd hand.. so tossing big treats can totally work for her, kind of like what Ripley had when his mom was tossing the big cheese balls 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
These are also looking really good 🙂
Wing wrap video:
The back and forth with cookies at the beginning looked good, and so did the back and forth with the toys – loved it when she offered it before you moved the toy!!!It was a little harder in the barn – partially maybe because you sitting down was stranger and also less action got her more interested in the smells? I think it is also possible that when you are low and stationary, she starts thinking about the down behavior perhaps because she has gotten a lot of reward for it? So if that happens and she gets stuck, you can help get her out of it by tapping the toy. But – I think you can add in having her go around something – that can help give her something to offer behavior on so she will think less about the down, perhaps 🙂 And then we can also get you standing pretty quickly. Try to use food and toys on this, so we can really build up food value in situations where she might not be as food-driven but where we might want to use food rather than toys 🙂
The blinds looked fabulous!!!
For the cross body reward, if you can keep your arm touching your belly, it will do the tricks of opening up the connection with your shoulders without looking like a threadle arm (which is up higher and held more away from our bodies). You can also open up your dog-side arm back to her after the blind so she can really see the connection – you did that beautifully a couple of times here, like at :52 and 1:15. She really like the action of all the running!Great job on all of these. Let me know what you think!
Tracy
