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hi Stephanie and welcome! I am excited to meet you and Mighty!!! You are brilliant, starting this with him so young – he is still basically a blank slate. I loved reading your history – a whole lot of great stuff already and tons of stuff to build on. You mentioned having holes in reinforcement procedures… they aren’t holes, he is a baby dog! They are places to keep building 🙂 He is like one of my dogs at that age: the sound of someone else saying ‘tunnel tunnel tunnel’ was a real head exploder and the cheese was almost punishing hahaha!
You are totally welcome to upgrade to a working spot! I have lots of ideas for you, either way 🙂 Let me know! As you get started with the games, I will come back to the history and help you plug in which game will be most effective for which of his questions (for example, the pattern game will TOTALLY help with the tunnel-tunnel-tunnel excitement, but we will do it with toys for him and not cheese LOL!!)
Let me know what you think! I am looking forward to learning more about Mighty!
TracyHi!
I think this is looking really good – the right balance of calm dragging toy and excitement when he nails the set point. I REALLY like how he is maintaining his organization even with the toy dragging and you running 🙂
(Your running looks fine! Things always feel awkward with each new dog 🙂 )
I think the 6 foot distance is probably the best for this – he was a bit stretched on the 7 foot, reaching forward rather than powering off his rear. So try 6 foot distance but with a 12” bar 🙂
For the “tails” game, you can work it at first as a retrieve game – you cue the tails toy, he gets it and brings it to you – and wins the dragging toy as a prize 🙂 That can raise the value of the dead tails toy pretty quickly, especially when you are on a big lead out 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>when I use the food to swap out the toy- she’s good but about 50 percent she takes a quick bite at me still. Stop the game, ignore and hope it diminishes as I work through the collar arousal?
50% is a high percentage! Is the tooth hug happening when you hold the collar, or after you take the toy but before the collar? The answer is in the mechanics so she learns what to do instead of bite you.
If it is happening as you take hold of the collar, have the collar hand moving at the same time as the cookie hand, so it is virtually simultaneous that you touch the collar and deliver the cookie, then let go and let her move to the wing.
If it is after you take the toy and before the collar grab – take the toy and toss the cookie so she gets used to look downwards after the toy out and not upwards to flesh LOL!With both of these, we start by being really quick with mechanics to train and condition all sorts of other things besides biting. Eventually we will delay the cookies so she can then get more reinforcement for choosing to NOT bite but for now, quick mechanics are the way to go. Stopping the game is a punisher and that will be frustrating to her, because she doesn’t really know what else to do. And if she does get a tooth hug in, it is a sign to have quicker mechanics, thinking less about the wing wrap and more about being quick and clean in the transitions between the toy and line up 🙂
T
Hi!
Great minds think alike LOL! I am glad you went to the toy, he looks good! You can now add 2 things:
slightly more distance between the 2 jumps, maybe 6 inches and if that is fine, add another 6 inches for an added foot, total.And after he is happy with that distance – add the dragging toy. I think he will really get to add another layer of power to this with the dragging toy. What qa the height on the 2nd bar? At 10 months old, we can show him a little bit of height, looked into the jump cups so he doesn’t rehearse hitting it as he sorts out all the other things. I am thinking 8 inches? And if he was doing 8 inches here, you can try 10 inches 🙂
Great job!
TracyBumping this up in case you are looking for the link! The Training Night Chat starts in 9 minutes 🙂
Tracy
Hi! Glad you have some clearance!!! The Back Front Combos are great for walking!!!!
We have til April 1st here, so you should be able to get more of the running stuff done too 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
> if he feels pressured or confused in training, he is very willing to leave in search of more pleasant outcomes, so he is keeping me honest for sure>>
Perfect! I like it when the dogs give us clear information like that LOL!
On the set point:
He definitely liked the moving toy! You can be more subtle when you place it, he finds that very stimulating and that contributed to the broken stay. Instead of plopping it down then dragging it, maybe slowly lower it slowly like a boat anchor as you move forward.
He was funny on the last rep, he chose to NOT watch the lead out! I don’t think it was a distraction issue, that is something I have seen some dogs do – they can’t watch when something is hard but then they are perfect when released LOL!Since this looks really good, keep th esame distance between the jumps an dput the height of the 2nd bar to 6″.
Wind in your hair looked really good! He did a super job finding the line!!!
he had a question on the very first rep, but I think you answered it for him by diong a FC on the wing after that – the front cross on the wing helped set him on the correct line to the jump better than the post turn did.One detail –
keep moving the whole time including as you are throwing – we want motion to be involved in all of this so he learns to find the jump even with the stimulation of motion. You were stopping and throwing, so when yo uare throwing you can keep running so we don’t dilute decel cues.
You kept moving much better with the placed toy! You can now alternate placing the toy and throwing the toy – and you can change your start position. You can send to the wing from further away so you are past the jump (challenging him to find it rather than chase you – throw the toy on this challenge so that you can mark that decision moment) and you can also start super close to the wing so he drives ahead of you. Placing the toy on that one will help.He had a couple of other questions but nothing too concerning:
he ended up on the wrong side of you at 1:44, but that was because you didn’t make a strong connection on your right side, so he was not sure where to be (your connection was great on the rest!)
And the bar down o nthe last rep was becaue the toy was a little too close (but it was in a perfect spot on the other reps).Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Fingers crossed for warm weather to melt all the snow! He didn’t appear to be slipping, but it is deeper so it might make him sore for the jumping stuff (like running or jumping on a beach).He is doing well with the set point, I definitely like his form with the dragging toy!! Be sure that the toy is in your dog side arm and not presented across you, so you can be facing forward the whole time and not rotated towards him.
He did really well with the stays also – it is not easy to hold the stay while a toy is dragging but he was great!On the wind in your hair video:
>>It was so hard to see if he was really looking forward or not.
it is definitely harder to see smaller dogs!! You can throw the toy from the opposite hand on this one, so you can open up the connection more downwards on the dog-side arm, to be able to see where he is looking (and that added connection can also get him on the correct side for the wing exit at 1:59) The placed toy worked well also, just have it a little further so he can stride out after the jump and doesn’t get hoppy trying to decelerate to get it 🙂
You can add more challenge to this one but starting closer to the wing so he drives further ahead of you, as well as doing the opposite – starting much further from the wing so he has to find the jump with you already past it 🙂Smiley face:
Part of the goal with this game is to train the pups to begin putting their skills into high speed sequences… and part of the goal of this game is to train the humans to connect, run, yell the right thing, etc. LOL!Your connection is looking good, he is doing a great job with commitments… so it is now all about planning verbals 🙂
>.But seriously I don’t know what the heck is so confusing about my left/right verbals!!😆I have never taught left/right before and I guess I am struggling to remember which should NOT be that hard. Maybe I’ll practice with Emmett if he feels up to it – he’s pretty deaf ow anyway so it won’t matter if I mess it up! Ha!>>
Ha! They are new which makes them harder to do while running AND watching the dog. Do runs without him so you can practice – and video to make sure you are correct. And if Emmett wants to be your practice dog for free cookies? Cool!
>> it was harder than I thought also to stop saying the encouraging words in between commands.
Yes! You tend to tell him how great he is more than give him info… He already knows how great he is, so he just wants the facts on course now LOL! He doesn’t go faster when you praise him, he tends to slow down a little because the praise doesn’t tell him what is next.
Most people either don’t do the run through without the dog in training, or they might walk it slowly and either don’t say the words or say them quietly. But it is an entirely different ballgame when running the dog, which is why I try to convince people to run for real without the dog and videotape it 🙂
So for your next round of smiley face games – run it without him, video it: see if you can get all the verbals and connections correct with no praise 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHello!
>>I’m back from my short vacation. Sprite wanted to feel wind in her hair!
Hope you had a fun time! And Sprite looked great here! She had no trouble finding the line to the jump with you walking or running. Yay!
So you can change things to add challenge in two ways:
– move the start wing further and start yourself really clsoe to it, sticking near it til she exits then accelerate up the line so she leaves you in the dust (a placed reward might work best for this so you don’t have to worry about the throws).
– move the wing further but you start near the jump – send her to the wing and be passing (or past) the jump when she exits the wing. That challenges her to find the jump and not just chase you (I like thrown rewards for this one so you know can reward the decision to find the jump and not chase you).>>I noticed on the set point video you dragged the toy on occasion. But, the original explanation said keep the toy out of your hand. Do you want us to try the moving toy?>>
Yes – original Baby and Advanced level set point game is just about teaching the set point concept with a stationary toy, making sure the stay is in a happy place, getting the bounce stride and head down. But, because this entire class of MaxPuppers is doing so well, we can add the dragging toy if the pre-game went well. The keeping the toy out of the hand is about not rewarding from your hand (which brings the head up). The dragging toy technically has one end of it in your hand LOL but the delivery is from the ground.
And yes, you can add it for her 🙂 She is ready! Great job here 🙂
TracyHi! Post the video here, I didn’t see anything come through here or in email?
The last session you did was the Fast Lines game – you can pick up there and then check out the week 5 games.
T
Hi!
Bummer about not getting to the UKI but totally understandable and definitely the right choice. How is George feeling? Gallbladder pain is AWFUL! Did they take it out or just the stones?
And it is never a good idea to train in a trial setting when your head is somewhere else. You made the right choice!
>>Next weekend is AKC so I’m thinking I could do some rewarded start lines with a toy in my FEO class. I can’t throw the toy, but I can release to tug?
Yes – the toy can be in your hand but cannot be thrown.
>>I knew you’d say that about the backside cues, LOL.
I’m pretty predictable LOL
>>Do you feel it’s best to rename the wrap one?
Yes – best and easiest at this point because her existing cue has more value as a slice. Also, the backside wrap is not a super high priority because of all the backsides you will see in AKC, I’d say 75% or more will be backside slices.
On the video:
Fast lines:
Great timing on your verbals for the turn wing and that is probably the timing she will need at trials (while she is over the previous jump). I was happy with all of the reps here, really nice!!!!!>>I noticed when she needed to do the soft turns, she would check in with me as she rounded the wing so I was throwing the reward to reinforce the line.
yes, but I don’t think it was anything other than she saw there was nothing else out there and you were not accelerating, so she was assuming ‘end of sequence’ and looking at you. Throwing the toy worked nicely!!!
You can spread out the distances on this one for more challenge, and you can also look at the course work game from week 5 🙂
Serp versus go:
>.The serp/go was challenging, so many words!
I feel this pain. Ha! SO MANY WORDS lol But if we can spit them out in a compressed space, doing them on bigger courses will be easier.
The GO was harder for her, especially with the layering element. You started throwing the toy nice and early, which REALLY helped! And it not seem to cause issues for the left/right serps, she did those really nicely.
>. I know my timing of saying them was off, but that was more of her default – to come in to me.
You can add them sooner for sure, so you can repeat them as well. They must have been quieter because I could hear the GO very clearly but not the soft turn verbals as well (I don’t need to hear them, Josie needs to hear than and it appears she did LOL!)
So the session was more about the GO with the layering, and that is great! She needs more GO line work (all of our dogs do!) and layering has become really popular as a course design element now. This went well!
For the next session, start as you did here, with the nice early throws for the GO lines. Then if she continues to do really well, you can ever-so-slightly delay the throw until after you see her looking straight so the throw will still be early, but not as early, to test her understanding a bit.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning and welcome 🙂 I am glad you found us here, thank you Donna LOL!!
Chata’s wing wraps looked great! Nice use of verbals! And she picked them up like a sponge – brilliant! So…. we can use this setup to work mechanics 🙂
>> we have developed an collar issue when in arousal.
Thank you for leaving it in, I can definitely see the tooth hug moments. It is GREAT info from the pup and it will help us sort things out which will help avoid frustration/tooth hugs in other areas of training. Yay! I recommend a couple of changes to the mechanics:
The collar hold should just be a gentle hold: don’t move her by the collar in these games, don’t pull her back or lift her (although she might be lifting herself), don’t grab the collar before you take the toy away. She doesn’t like it in general, even with the food – and she gets bitey when the toy is aroused. Good info!
Instead, play with the toy, get the toy back (no touching her, you can do an out or a cookie trade). Then, line her up at your side with a cookie (totally can be a follow-the-cookie lure for now), feed her the cookie at your side, slip a finger under her collar then another cookie, then without any collar pressure: start the verbals and let go pretty quickly.
>>>> I need to adjust food delivery I think since I was having her come all the way around each time? Or maybe it doesn’t matter?
I think it matters because it was not as clean with the line up and collar hold –
When just using food, have 2 cookies in the reward hand and one cookie in the other hand: you can reward her for coming around the wing with one cookie (she will be facing you), then she can follow that same hand into the reset position with the 2nd cookie – then the cookie hand slips a finer under her collar and the other hand delivers the line up cookie. You will be alternating sides – first rep from your left side, reward on your right, reset on your right, next rep on your right, reward on your left, reset on your left, and so on 🙂 Lots of cookies but she won’t be sad about that LOL!So with these mechanics, the collar hold is just part of the loop and sandwiched in between a shit-ton of reinforcement for all sorts of other stuff. There might be a variety of reasons why she doesn’t love it – restraint is frustrating when she wants to go go go, or the collar grab is predicting the toy removal/end of play which is punishing (negative punishment), or she doesn’t enjoy being moved around by her collar… or all of the above. She is sending a pretty clear message LOL! so we can adjust the mechanics and then all of the arousal/frustration around the collar grabbing will just go away because the conditioned response to it is totally different.
>> She really likes them and she’s starting to bark while working.
Interesting to note but nothing to worry about at this point 🙂
Great job here! I am excited to see more of her games!!
TracyHi! Nice work on these – it is really fun to see him sorting this out!!!!
The serp versus go is a good challenge for him!
>> I think I’m late on my exit line verbal but I also am not sure if I can really say in much earlier and still get the serp vs go on?
Yes, I think you were a little late but when you said the GO earlier, as he was arriving at the wing, he had good success – especially when you had a big energy change in the verbal like at 1:31. That rep was perfect timing to switch to the GO ON verbal and the change in the delivery of the verbal was incredibly distinct – love it!!!! That distinct difference plus the quieter/longer left and right verbals will help him get good at processing the difference.
On other thing that can help for now is to slow down your motion so you are not past the serp jump on the serp lines – being past it is motion/line support for the go which might be too much ‘proofing’ of the left/right for now. So you can move more slowly so you are more in between the serp jump uprights, which helps support the serp with a bit of positional cuing and challenges the go lines 🙂 And in that position – for the Go line, as soon as you see him looking ahead, you can throw the reinforcement so he gets the concept of layering without you needing to accelerate.
the back front combos are looking good! With the wing in position 1, the front side is very hard to find so you can help with a wrap cue on the start wing – but he totally sorted it out nicely!
>> I spend more time doing the right side stuff and less on the left in case you are wondering why going right seems harder. I think it’s me lol.>>
Ha! He did seem stronger in one direction, but that could have also been that it was the second part of the session and he was developed the concept in the first part of the session. But overall, he did REALLY well – at first there were subtle differences in your line (going straight to the center of the bar for the backsides, a bit of pulling away for front sides) but then later in the session, there was not a lot of difference: for example, at 2:19 you were really starting to leave early, your line was pretty much the same running line as the front side cue, and he still got the backside slice. GOOD BOY!!!! SUPER!!!
He only had one other question, towards the end – on the backside wrap, at 2:22 you had a little too much speed with all that pressure on the line so he pinged off the jump. Good to know! There was nothing wrong with the cue, but he is still learning the skill. So that cue will be your eventual end result and for now, he needs a little less speed: the rep at 2:27 was the perfect amount of speed and pressure for now, and you can gradually build it back up.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
