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Hi!
>>We worked on remote reinforcement. I’m a big fat chicken to try the leash. I will need to do lots of stimulus control for that. And I will!>>
Do you mean trying the leash as the toy? Pretend it is exactly the same as the toy you used here – and it can be on top of a reward station instead of on the ground to start with.
She did well on both videos here! The reward station was really far, and she still did well 🙂 You can have it closer to the sequence, for 2 reasons: it will be easier to get to and a little more tempting 🙂 The food seemed easier (I love the “chips” marker LOL!!) and the toy was a little harder – she got a bit frozen for a heartbeat but then worked through it. Remember to mix in lots of short bursts of moving away from the toy or treats, rather than sequences.
Add in some praise and coming to you before you use your toy or chips marker. This will help her understand that it is marker-only, and not just a the end of the sequence 🙂
>>So should I do this all over again with a leash? Leash off and then leash on?>>
Yes! Because the leash is a source of stress, working with it in all of these non-stressful games should de-stress you both 🙂 For now, you can put the reinforcement on the reward station, move her away from it on leash – and either do some tricks then run back to it, or take the leash off and do a jump or two. No need to worry about the leash going back on yet, we will add that in when she is happy to come in with the leash on.
Great job here :)
TracyPS – we know that stress/arousal states can narrow the field of vision, so it is possible that what they look at and see, and we WANT them to look at and see are two different things. That can help explain why they sometimes get ‘tunnel vision’ on a line if our handling is unclear or cannot look at us on the start line. It does not mean they are in the wrong arousal state or anything, it is just a physiological response to stress. Same with us humans! I am researching more info on that and how we can use it help the dogs 🙂 Stay tuned!
Tracy
Hi!
>>I meant if she glances after a tossed treat during the volume dial game.
>>But, on the volume dial if she glances a tiny bit after a tossed treat do I keep playing or go back to pattern games?>>Got it! One tiny glance away? Keep playing and get the rewards and tricks more energetic with more moving from you both. Repeated looking away or really slooooow responses to simple tricks cues? Yes, go back to pattern games because she is telling you the environment is hard.
>> If I’m playing back and forth and she glances I just keep playing that game. If she got really sticky, then I’d go to the up and down game. Is that the general order of operations? >>
Yes, in general. Her response will give you feedback so you can make adjustments. Other possible adjustments are to move further away from the distraction, or start with the up and down rather than the back and forth. You will be able to ‘read’ her body language and responses to help you decide what to do next. Because the environment is fluid, we have to stay flexible with the games too.
>>Sprite can watch Gemma work. That’s pretty easy at home, but not at the park.
So at home, if she can station while Gemma works and it is easy, it is a great way to just rehearse the line ups and games leading up to it.
>> However, she’s whining in her car crate so she knows I’m out with Gemma. Typically I work Gemma first.>>
Terrific! The park will be a good intermediate step. How close can you have Sprite watch?
>>So, when I add the leash…. Previously I was told to wait for eye contact to remove it. What is your thoughts on that? If she can’t offer that and is scanning there is little chance she could line up.>>
I think it totally depends on the dog. Optimal states will look different for every breed and every individual, and eye contact might not be part of that. Same as some dogs loved to be touched in that moment and some really shy away from it… this will depend on her! Bear in mind that scanning is different than not offering eye contact – very different behaviors with different things going on.
In general, a lot of waiting for eye contact before the leash comes off creates a lot of pressure except for the dogs that naturally/intrinsically offer eye contact. Plus, other than standing still and staring at the dog (PRESSURE!) there is no real cue for the desired eye contact.
I prefer to take the leash off and let the dog offer engagement. The leash coming off is both a pressure release and a cue, and it involves movement for both of us. Does engagement mean eye contact? Depends on the dog and what it looks like for *that* dog to be in the best state for a great run. More on that coming in games package 3!
And if the dog takes off when the leash comes off? Well, that is a separate issue 🙂 and we teach the engagement of “stay with me” before we worry about eye contact.
Bear in mind that stress/pressure causes the brain to burn more glucose. And if we add to that stress/pressure by requiring really challenging or undesirable behavior, we are burning more glucose in the brain and that could exhaust the dog before the run even starts.
So for Sprite, engagement might include eye contact, or not. The eye contact doesn’t really matter – what matters is reducing the pressure, moving in and out of that situation quickly, and helping her get into the optimal state to be able to run the course.
Side note: I don’t train any of my dogs to make eye contact, specifically. Of the 4 dogs running agility right now, when the leash comes off in the agility ring, one dog does a happy bark and little dance, then lines up and stares at the jump. He doesn’t make eye contact but he is READY. One dog makes indirect eye contact. One dog makes very direct eye contact and start barking at me (this is THE indicator that she is truly in the optimal state: barking at me on the start line). And one freezes in position wherever she is when the leash comes off and looks at the first line (so I line her up before the leash comes off).
All of this was learned through observing their engagement style especially when under pressure at the start line, with the goal being a happy start line procedure. So if offering eye contact is natural and easy for her? Great! Do it! If eye contact in that moment is uncomfortable for her? Don’t do it, let’s not add anything that is uncomfortable as it could actually be increasing the scanning and stress.
>>I just did a quick session in my living room with the leash and tugging to the line. She’s swinging her butt into line up! >>
Very fun! Plenty of dogs like to tug their way to the line, release the tug (the leash, generally), line up, and get on with it. She will let us know!
Fingers crossed for no mud! Have fun!
Tracy
Hi Annalise and Team Prytania!
Super strong connection on all of these runs! You and Prytania are looking more and more like a really confident, fast team. This is exciting!
First sequence – gorgeous! Great connection and support of the line, and you also used lateral distance to cue the 2nd tunnel so you could easily get the BC after the tunnel. Lovely! I think I owe you more ice cream for that run LOL!!!
2nd run – this is the run where she ran off to greet. I think that it was mainly because she gets nervous when she thinks she is wrong, so she tries to greet people (this is a common thing when dogs think they are wrong). Keep in mind that dogs process things in slow motion compared to us humans 🙂 Here is what happened: at :32 you said jump and you were facing straight, which cued the off course. You froze for a second then made a sound – and when she sensed it might have been wrong, she went visiting. So if something goes wrong, I want you to pretend that it was exactly what you wanted her to do (acting!) and keep going or reward like you won 🙂 That will keep her from getting worried if something goes wrong.
When she realized there was reward and she was not wrong, she came back to the game. That let you set up a super rear cross on the ending line. Yay!
So for the turn 3-4, be sure you are turning your shoulders to cue 4, like you did at :12 and the last run too.
Last run – very nice blind!! Terrific timing!!! I guess if I was going to nit pick 🤣🤣 then I would suggest your line on the blind stay closer to 5 and less between the uprights of 4, to get an even better turn 4-5.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
Sounds like it was a great field trip to the store!
>>If she glanced around on the way back from a tossed treat I went back to pattern feeding.>>
Was the glancing on the volume dial game? Or during the pattern game?
On the ‘demand for jump’ game 🙂 she is definitely doing well!!! A couple of ideas for you:
In each session, make the starting point really obvious by bringing her into each rep like it is a start line. The first rep was very clear like this! On the 2nd rep, it was less clear – she got a food reward and then you backed up to the jump and she was like… what? LOL!
So after each rep, reward, then exit the ‘ring’ and re-enter just like you did on the first rep.
And for the re-entry, you can incorporate the leash being on her. That adds another layer of complexity for sure! For most dogs, the best order-of-festivities is to take the leash off then wait for the offer. Leash off becomes part of the cue!
And I think you can do this game in higher arousal with a toy. State dependent memory science tells us to try to simulate the higher arousal she will feel in training or trials! Can she watch Gemma run/train a bit, then it is Sprite’s turn to try this game?
Since she is holding the stay really well, be sure to ping pong in lots of very fast releases and short lead outs, mixing in a couple of longer lead outs. And when you add complexity (like the leash in your yard at home, or this game at the park or class), release very quickly even if her latency on offering the sit is a little higher (processing is hard!)
You can also play this game in front of a tunnel (she will LOVE the release to the tunnel, I think!) or even jump-tunnel so she gets released to do a line into a tunnel. FUN!
One more thought here – since the main goal is the offering the sit to make the line up cues easier eventually, try to work on just that one thing in this session, so she lines up and gets rewarded with finding the front of the jump. Resist temptation to cue backsides or threadles or anything that can go wrong, because we want the sequence of offered sit- release – jump to be intact and highly reinforcing without any possibility of being wrong on the jump.
Great job here! Tracy
Good morning!
>>She’s used to me putting the toy on the ground, but I don’t usually put it in my pocket at home. I thought her eyes were going to pop out of her head when I tucked the toy in my pocket!>>
HA! I am glad you showed it to her so there are no surprises at trials 🙂
Sequence 1 – This is going really well! Great connection here and she is driving the lines brilliantly 🙂
Not sure it will make a difference to your position on course, but 1 is on the other side of the jump so she wraps left and then into the tunnel, so there is no lead out – it puts you in a positionally more challenging spot 🙂
Watching this session, I don’t think you have time to do a forward-facing-deceleration-then-turn like you were doing 2-3-4. It was delaying the info because you were facing forward and causing you to almost stop moving, which makes it harder to drive lines. Yes, a forward facing decel is still good for wrap FCs or spin on a wraps. But on these soft turns, the stand up decel is causing you to face forward too long and get behind.
At :12 and :48 – a little late starting the decel and you are facing straight over 3 while she is in the air, so she is wide and misses 4 on the first rep but got it on the 2nd rep with you a bit further away.
You were earlier on the decel at 1:27 but still facing forward – she did turn better over the jump, but positionally the big forward-facing decel-then-turn puts you pretty far from the line. Not a big deal on this sequence, but on a bigger course it will leave you in the dust.
What to do instead? As she exits the tunnel, be moving a bit forward but not really decelerating – turn and go to 4. To replace the decel as a turn cue, try a brake arm instead, as that can get the collection and also allow you to turn your shoulders and keep moving faster.
The line after the tunnel is going well! Good adjustment to get the blind and reconnection sooner on the 2nd rep of it (:53). That gave her a clearer line to the last jumps (the first blind re-connection was a little late so she had to find the new side at the last moment at :17).
And really nice job on the RC – you might not need to go as close to the tunnel to set it up because she smoked you, putting you way behind 🙂 You can experiment with where you need to be – maybe driving to the halfway point between the tunnel and jump?
2nd video –
Jump 1 – line her up on a slice so it is a less severe wrap. You started using the slice line more after about 1:00 and that will be a faster line for you both 🙂 The slice lines looked great!On most of the reps here, you didn’t do the forward-facing decel here 2-3-4 and she didn’t need it at all! You were able to keep moving. NICE! And when you did do the forward-facing-decel, it put you behind. More on that below.
Setting up the RC:
The trick to this is the turn at 4 then driving the RC line., with a little decel so she can add collection before takeoff. To get the turn at 4 to set the line, you can get up near 4 so as she is over the bar/landing from 3, you are decelerating and turning (this is where turning is really important and the brake arm can come in handy). When she collects and turns to lookout the RC line to 5, you can start moving to the center of the bar of 5 and as she passes you, decelerate so she collects into the RC.
First RC at :10 – this rep didn’t have the decel/turn to set the line 4-5, looked like a RC on the flat. No worries! Keep going on that – she was not wrong and stopping gets weird (“good try” and a toy can quickly becoming punishing for dogs who like to move and understand that the game is about moving). That can cause shifts into overarousal and frustration.
A little bit of overcompensation on the RC at :45 – you faced the left wrap wing til she was past you then tried for the RC, but she couldn’t adjust before takeoff. This is another time to keep going and get the ending line rather than mark and stop. I know the marker is not intended to be a negative for her, but it can quickly become a negative when consistently paired with stopping and a change in energy.
Plus, it gives you practice on how to recover from a bobble and keep going 🙂 There are lots of bobbles in agility and being able to keep going in helpful!
You came back to the RC later in the session:
At 2:09, you gave a big forward-facing-decel for 3, almost coming into a walk – this caused you to have to accelerate then decelerate then accelerate then decel 🙂 You were able to set the RC so she kniew it was a right turn, but because there was too much acceleration into it, she was a bit wide.So try driving up to the 4 jump and wherever you are when she is in the air of 3 – start to decelerate and turn, to set the line to 5. That will make it easier to set up a nice tight RC!
The BCs are going well too – and you can see on these where staying in motion is really helpful and the forward facing decel puts you behind.
On the BC at 1:06 a forward facing decel for 3 is what caused you to be late on the BC (you ended up on her line and she correctly took the backside). You can keep going here too – she read it correctly so no need to stop, even if she gets the toy.
Compare it to the rep at 1:36 where you did not do a forward-facing-decel: you ran like mad to the BC and got it really nicely! You can be even more laterally away from 3 when you are heading to the BC, and you can start the blind when you see her over the bar of 3 so it is fully finished before she takes 4 (your motion and verbals support the line to 4).
Your line of motion and position relative to 3-4 will cue the line & turn, while giving you plenty of time to get the BC. And that will give you even more time to decelerate into the spin on 5 (1:39 was a little wide, late decel).
Really nice work here! Let me know what you think, especially about taking out the forward-facing-decels on the soft turns, to keep you ahead of her and setting lines.
Tracy
Hi! This was another good run!!
The jumping lines looked awesome. We are going to have to do more blinds because he was soooo fast that the FC in the beginning was a little late.
For the teeter – is he supposed to stop 2on 2off, or 4on? You turned into him and he stopped pretty high up the board. In the FEO runs, try to do exactly what you would want in training, so hopefully he can do it more independently.
>>Tunnel was odd, first time he has gotten distracted>>
Yes, that was odd. And I think he legit smelled something, based on his body language. He didn’t seemed stressed or over-aroused, but definitely track this in other FEO runs to see if he has another moment like this. Maybe he was mentally tired, which is pretty normal with baby dogs. You handled it perfectly – toy reward, then back into the tunnel for more toy reward. Super! I guess it was odd enough that even the judge was thinking it was odd – at the end of the run, he was heading over to the tunnel to look at it LOL!!
Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
>>Lizzie does not bring the toy back so I don’t know what to make of that.>>
You can get more of a retrieve by developing a game of give her the toy, let her have it for a few seconds, then present another toy for her to come back to. She doesn’t have to bring the first toy back to start, but over time this can ease the transition into a retrieve!
Tracy
Good morning!
>>Ran into what I feel is a setback (maybe?) or challenge this morning.
I don’t think it was a setback – it is great info though! Yes, a bit of a challenge, but no worries! We have good tools for him.
If he was a major piggie foodie that suddenly couldn’t eat, I would be concerned. But food is a lower on his priority list (I know, crazy, LOL!!!!) so I am not as concerned about it. He didn’t look anxious, and he was able to play with the toy (YAY!) so it was probably rooted in the environment being very challenging and needing to be processed, and motivators needing to be highest value.
>>We’ve done this a couple of times now and he ran very well with two personal best times.>>
He ran 2 new PBs in this location? I was going to ask how he did in the environment when “working” but I guess the 2 new PBs answers that question LOL!!
>>But at both the beginning and the end of his runs he COULD NOT take a treat of any flavor, could not play with his toy, and could not chase his treat ball>>
How does this compare to other FastCat experiences? Could he eat or play at the other facilities? Has he been to this facility in the past? These can help us know where baseline is.
On the video, the food was not motivating in that moment but the toy at the end was!
He doesn’t look anxious or worried about anything. But not being able to eat or play and needing to look at/listen to the environment more is probably indicating a slightly over-aroused internal state.
One thing you can do is take him for a resilience walk! Let him scope out the environment and sniff and look around. It is entirely possible that the facility was weird that day, or extra noisy, or he was tired/not hungry/a little GI upset from training treats earlier in the weekend, or there was a bitch in season in one of those cars (learning to work when a BIS is nearby is SUPER important for our teenage male pups!!)
>>Where should I go with this?
Keep an eye on it but don’t freak out 🙂 Track it and see how he does the next time you come to the facility.
Also of note – FastCat elicits prey drive (chase that bunny!) and that type of prey drive can raise arousal into over-arousal, and can totally suppress appetite.
The other thing to so is play pattern games with 2 toys or 2 balls that you can toss back and forth. I do this for dogs that don’t eat treats reliably when they are a bit over-aroused. I posted a video of on the same page that has the recording of last Monday’s chat. I was using 2 frisbees, but you can use 2 toys or balls and toss them back and forth. It is possible that he needs to move more and that will help too!
>>I’m beginning to toy with the idea of entering him in a few trials after the first of the year.>>
HIGHLY recommend getting him into NFC/FEO trials! Those use toys as rewards and he likes toys! Try to find UKI to start with, for 2 reasons:
– you can throw the toy in UKI, and that is his absolute favorite 🙂
– it is inexpensive and smaller, so you can get lots of runs with fewer distractions.AKC is a lot more restrictive with FEO and it is usually more crowded – so while AKC might be your eventual prime venue, I recommend starting in UKI (or even USDAA) to ease the transition into the ring.
>>Havanese Nationals are at the end of May and I’d like to enter him in Novice if he’s ready. >>
FUN!!! With May as a potential goal for real runs, try to find some NFC runs so you can start easing him in and working out any questions he might have.
>>I’ve read up on the NFC/FEO information you’ve sent but we’re not there yet. I guess I don’t know how he’ll be in the ring but I have an inkling he’ll be like this outside the ring.>>
I think he is ready for some UKI NFC! There is a bunch of NC if you want to take a short drive 🙂 And we will get him sorted outside the ring – the trick is to NOT put any pressure on the behavior, and instead to ease him in and let him give us feedback.
>>there’s nothing like sibling rivalry. He then continued to eat them at home during the pattern games and teeter training. But now he won’t eat them again – I tried again today>>
There are some studies that show that jealousy can increase motivation in dogs and other mammals 🙂 Because food is not his #1 motivator, you can constantly switch it around. Start with something he likes and then after a few bites of it, end the session or switch to something else. That way there is a rotation of good food that won’t lose value as much.
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Yes, it will feel weird at first, but walking the courses as if you are actually running him – saying the verbals, connecting with your invisible dog 😂🤣 will all help when you run him on the course!
Tracy
Good morning!
The connection looked a lot stronger here for sure! There are two types of connection in play here: the regular connection where we are looking at them and it is a little more peripheral, and the more extreme connection where we look at them VERY directly. That extreme connection is what works best here to get him to the backside when you using a bit of distance. As the he gets more experienced, he won’t need as much connection but for now, the extreme connection should work very consistently 🙂
When he was on your right at the beginning, the connection was better for the first reps but at its best at :29 when you REALLY looked at him but also kept moving. SUPER! He had already done a couple of sessions on your right, so was able to be successful even if the connection was a little softer.
On the last 2 reps on the right, be careful to not run a ‘banana line’ which is motion towards the entry wing then pulling away to get past the other wing. That will often cause dogs to curl in at the last minute and not go to the backside. So remember to run on a straight line forward, parallel to his – and we will get you further and further across the bar 🙂
The countermotion is also looking strong! As we start to put the pieces together, it will be easier to fun forward if you fade the arm across the body as you are passing the exit wing. You can use the connection shift and arm closer to the jump to look back at the landing. And if you throw the toy behind you, try it from the outside arm but just tossing it behind you from the same side your arm is on, rather than across your body. Let me know if that makes sense or if I need more coffee haha!
The connection on the other side was a whole new ball game 🙂 The first couple of reps were the softer regular connection. Compare that to 1:59 and 2:24 where your connection was much stronger, more extreme 🙂 and he got it really well! Adding more running speed to be ahead helped, but the more extreme connection is what made the difference.
Since he has trouble when you change sides, you can angle the jump on the very first rep so the backside entry is more visible as you come up the line.
He had a question at 2:18, and that is a bit of a softer connection moment and you did a slight banana line 🙂 of moving away in a curve before he was committed. So keep emphasizing the straight parallel line motion and BIG connection 🙂
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
On this ’empty hand’ remote reinforcement sequence, he was able to weave away from the reward station (the previous rep required him to weave towards it) so that is good info – you can isolate the weaves in that context to be able to work on them without anything in your hands. You can also bring him into the sequence on leash, so he sees you put it on the station when you take it off.
He did have some trouble when someone came in! That is a great thing to set up – ask a person to come in as he is finishing a sequence, so you can reward him for staying with you. This will simulate the next dog/handler coming into the ring!
Great job on these! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
