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Hi!
>>Shall I do both exercises and resubmit?
You can if you like, but we have new stuff coming tomorrow so you can also move forward and leave this for another time – he is doing well!!
>>On the ladder: I did stand him for a few reps and it was ugly. At one point you had said you thought he might benefit from a standing start, so I tried it. I’ll go back to the sit-start.>>
Yes, the stand start can be great for sequences. For the grids, the sit is a bit better for him because he is more balanced and can push off immediately from his rear. And, separately, definitely work on a square/balanced stand so he is more comfy in it and not acting like he is being murdered LOL!
>>I had so much trouble with the lap turn around the wing that I didn’t submit it. I think I will do some reps without a jump then try the jump again.>>
Sounds good! Definitely send video so we can sort out why he was struggling.
T
Hello and welcome!!!! I am excited to see more of JuJu!
>>I am telling myself to work at my own pace and not worry what others are doing:) Always a real struggle for me not to compare what I am doing to others. I am writing it down here so I can see it when I need it:)
TOTALLY relatable!!!! Work at your own pace, let the puppy grow up, and the results will be great. And get off of social media so you don’t see highly edited videos of puppies doing very advanced things hahahahaha
This is also why I will be posting videos of my new pup – I take it pretty slowly and I will probably fall behind LOL!
>> but she will be baby level and step 1 for any shaping.
Perfect! Everyone should be starting at step 1 regardless of age, and then you will be surprised at how easy it is to get to step 2 🙂
Have fun!
TracyHi! I am so excited about your pup!!!
>>. She’s a little sensitive when meeting new people but is either indifferent or likes other dogs which is new for me!
The resilience games will help with any sensitivity!
>> I might have to actually work more self control with her (we’ll see as she develops) but if so that will also be new for me LOL!
We slide in a lot of self control, without actually calling it self control LOL!!!
I am excited to see more of you and Lu!
Tracy
Hi! I think both Prytania and Annalise BOTH enjoyed the dock diving LOL!!!! Fun!
And if she is worried about the fake dog, no need to try to get her to go closer to it – she was like “This is weird, I am OUTTA HERE!” lol! Yes, it was weird to see a stuffed dog LOL!
>>The stuffed dog was there the day before and she paid no attention to it. Then she noticed it Sunday morning. Puppies are hilarious!>>
That is such a typical adolescent moment LOL!!!!
Very nice job with the rear cross progression! On the first video:
You and I both laughed the same exact laugh and say “good try” when she went directly to the toy on the first rear cross rep LOL!!! The toy was a little too visible outside the wing – you can place it just past the landing spot, tucked into the wing, so it helps her take the bar before going to it. This will help when you switch to the left turn rear crosses (I think she is ready to see that now!)Big light bulb moments on the 2nd video! Be sure to keep your feet pointing to the bar as apply the RC pressure – the first 2 reps had a little too much foot turn so she had to run a bit in front of you, and then the next two needed a little more pressure to cue the turn sooner.
3rd session – I think she has the idea now!! Yay! She seems ready for you to put a little more pressure on the line for these now: run forward more to the center of the bar, so you are showing the pressure sooner and so you also won’t be left as far behind as she drives past you 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHello and welcome! Pesto is adorable 🙂 And his sister is in a lot of the demo videos, so you will get a view of how these Pizzas play the games LOL!!
Have fun!
TracyHello! I am excited to see you here and that you have joined the crazy world of 2 puppies at the same time LOL!! It will be a blast! Reacher is adorable 🙂
TracyGood morning!
>>I have done some practices but haven’t gotten videos edited until tonight.
No need to edit them! Editing cuts out the important parts of what happens between the reps and during the reinforcement 🙂 so set a timer for a couple of minutes, do the session, then put it up in its entirety.
>>Caper had her vet appointment today and he gave her a clean bill of health. I suspect her behavior is a combination of her being an adolescent intact female and me being a bit down and her reading that.
That is great! Did they run a tick panel? We will keep watching her for behavioral feedback and make sure she continues to have a great time in life and sport 🙂
Looking at the angled grid – now that she has the idea that grids can be 3 jumps and not just 2 🙂 you can start using the moving target/dragging toy instead of the stationary target. She is a ‘hoppy’ girl when going to the stationary target, looking at you a little.
Here is a close up and more extreme example of the behavior the stationary targets create in most dogs LOL! And why I have gone to the moving targets:
I think the moving target will help make it even smoother for her – it is a challenging visual! And be sure to start her close to the first jump, maybe 6 inches away, so she takes off out of the sit. At :26 and :45 she was too far from the jump, is she had to put her front feet down again before takeoff for 1.
Lap turns – As you found it, the lap turns work best when you hold your hand position til she is 2 inches away – when you did that she was perfect!
>>Do you think her barking is excitement or a bit of frustration with me not getting information to her as quickly and clearly as she needs?
I think the barking during the lap turn element was probably a bit of frustration because the game is really challenging and her speed had to be controlled – a lot of dogs will vocalize when things are really challenging. I don’t think it was because you were being frustrating on most of the reps, I think it was because the game is hard 🙂
I think the barking on the tandem turns were definitely more of a frustration issue because of lack of clarity (more below on that :))
Looking at the tandem turns:
>>The allure of the tunnel was hard for her even though it was a long way off
I don’t think it was the tunnel… I think you were late so she was mirroring the info back to you in the wideness (or tightness) of the turn. For example at 1;10 and 1:13, she was pretty wide but tat was because you started the turn away element after she was past the wing.
And at 1:17, she was well past you and the wing before you did the turn element so she read it as soon as it happened… but it was really late 🙂 So she was correct to stay on the line towards the tunnel, but I don’t think it was the tunnel distracting her that was causing her to do a bit wide. She barked and came back and jumped up – all of that is frustration behavior. The food is a nice reward but she still knew the cues were late and it was hard to figure out what to do, which is why she was frustrated even though you were tossing treats. And there were some reps where she accurately read you cue (1:55 for example) and didn’t get rewarded… that where things can easily slip into frustration because she offered a response that reflected the cue, and was in effect told she was incorrect.
Then at 1:25, you changed the cue to one hand AND you were late (the cue actually did look like a send to the tunnel) so off she went to the tunnel. And she had some other wideness after that even when you broke it down to one wing, because of the timing issue.
So to help her see it sooner and be able to respond:
– decelerate into it, so the change in motion gives her a heads up that something big is coming.
– use your hand cue to slowly turn her away, rather than doing a fast flip away. When you were using your hands slowly, the cue was clearer. When you were doing fast flips, the turn hand was unclear as to whether she should drive out to the tunnel or turn away to the wing. So slowing the cue down will allow you to do the turn hand motion *then* indicate the wing, rather than trying to do them both at the same time.The mission transition game is going well! You were doing a good job of showing the elements separately (fast, slow, rotate).
>>When I first tried the exercise with her on my left she turned the wrong way the first two times. Then I did one without the wing and she was correct and then Keith shifted the wing over and that made a huge difference.>>
Yes – the wing position made that right turn look like a left turn because you had to push to the center of the bar to get her back on the line to the jump, which looked like a rear cross. Moving the wing to a more centered position totally helped!
The next step here is to now start rotating sooner for the FC, so you are finished with the FC before she takes off.
>>when I get together with the others, but this seemed like it would be an easy low key exercise and I think it was too much for her little self.>>
Don’t be fooled by the relatively simple setup 🙂 Anything that involves mechanics (the zig zags are all striding mechanics, as re the grids, the turn aways, the decelerations) are mentally challenging and physically challenging…. So the dog’s brain and body needs to be fresh to do them 🙂 And so does the handler’s brain!
Something like a smiley face or racetracks to the tunnel require a lot less thought and physical skill from the dogs, so that is a good one to end on rather than the complex zig zag 🙂
And also, it requires a lot of mechanics from you: The first couple of reps where you were at the 2nd wing went well because your cues were clear.
At :15 when you were at the 3rd wing, you said OK but didn’t really step to the first bar so she came directly to you (correctly) and then you told her she as wrong by pulling the toy away and marking her as wrong. I think you did pull out a cookie as you were walking back… but it is still a communication that *she* was wrong when in fact it was you.
Your arm and step was more obvious at :26 so she got it.At :35 – you were a little late and disconnected, so she hit the middle wing trying to read the line. Good girl! She finds this game harder when you are out at wing 3, so for now don’t go out there – stat wing 2 and after a couple of successful reps, take one step back rather than go all the wya to the next wing.
The you switched sides, bear in mind that you were now cuing the right turns and that is harder for her. On the first rep you were at wing 3 and had big obvious cues at :39 so she got it. Then you moved back to past wing 3 (which is a significant increase in distance) and the cues were not as obvious (upper body swung but feet did not, so with the added distance she didn’t read it as a go-into-the-gap cue). And like at :15, you communicated that the error was hers but it was yours 🙂 Same at :49 and 1:00 (she got it at :58 when you were much closer).
So if she does not end up in the gap that you wanted, reward her like she was correct (because she was, as the video shows :)) rather than all the toy away. And if you are not sure why she is not reading the cues, stop the session and watch the video because it will give you ideas of what to change for the next rep.
>>I think it was too much for her little self.
Actually…. Yes it was hard but it was not too much. What went wrong here was that she needs you to break it down a bit more (especially if this was the first time seeing it with bars) and live & die by the 2 failure rule. Remember that the 2 failure rule is the total for the session – so if you get 2 failures, the next reps all must be very successful. You were tending towards getting one success then making it harder again, which set up more failures. So if you see a question, go back to where ti was easier (like the 2nd wing instead of the 3rd) and move away one step at a time over the course of multiple sessions.
And in terms of it being too much, yes one detail was probably too much: asking for the right turns at the very end of all the sessions. So be sure that you end on the left turns which seem easier for her.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
This is definitely improving – going well overall! She is reading the deceleration and collecting really well! And only one accidental rear cross (and I think she is a righty, so she wants to turn that way anyway). But all the other wrap reps looked really good and she did well!
I think you made it a little harder for your timing by starting her in a stay in front of the jump (rather than a wing). The wing allows you to send and get ahead, and bring her in with speed. Starting from a sty on a jump causes her to need to accelerate before she can decel, which makes the timing trickier.
The other thing that made it harder for you both was that you were doing it from behind her (and from a stationary start) so you both had to use more peripheral vision which makes processing the timing and mechanics harder for you both. So you can do it from a wing start and from a bit further ahead, so you can show it to her from ahead of her which can be really helpful.
>>Anyway, let me know if there’s anything else that will help me improve my decel transition handling and timing.>
I also practice this a lot with just 2 wings (and a tunnel about 10 feet past the 2nd wing). That way I can practice my timing without doing too many jumps. And if I am late, the dog ends up in the tunnel LOL!! And 2 wings allows me to sort out the fast then slow then rotate with less chance of the accidental rear cross.
But overall, this is going really well!!! It is a complicated game and you are both doing really well :)
Tracy
Hi!
You got a “wow Keith” on the first rep form Suzie! NICE!!! And a moan on the 3rd rep LOL!!
2nd pre (:06) slammed on the brakes and disconnected – you don’t need to slam on the brakes for him, because he can really turn so nicely! So do more like what you did at :14, which was great because the decel was more subtle.
You did start adding the rotation when you changed sides, but it was late 🙂 As he passes the 2nd cone, you should be rotating so he sees it earlier and you are done before he takes off.At :23 you started to rotate and do the FC – you were a little late at :24 (bar tick) And you were even later at :27 (you started rotated as he was over the bar) and he dropped the bar.
Definitely keep rewarding his effort even with the bar down, because it is all on the handler with a baby dog to set the jumping up for success – withholding reinforcement will cause frustration which can lead some dogs to slow down and some dogs to get frantic. We don’t want either of those! I know most people insist on NOT rewarding dogs when the bar comes down, and in fact they tell people to stop (punishing the dog). But that is a big blame shift for a puppy: blaming him for the error when it is in fact all human error, especially at this stage.
So if he drops a bar, before the next rep, play the rep you just did in super slow motion to check your timing 🙂
It was fun to see the ladder grid here! He definitely thought about it and was different in his striding in a GOOD way – very powerful and balanced on the reps with the sits.
On the last 2 reps, you used a stand and that changed his mechanics entirely (especially on the last rep where his stay posture was really scrunched up and pretty far from the jump). So if you use a stand, be sure he is balanced with all of his feet squarely under him and balanced. Did you change to a stand because he was breaking the sit? His sit seemed really solid – yes, his head is lowered but he is having no problem with his jumping 🙂
Great job here! Let e know what you think!
TracyHi!
She did well with the decel game! She is reading it really well, so now it is a matter of figuring out how early you can do it!At :10 you started it as she was lifting off, so she did the back jump. On the next reps, you started the decel when she was just past the halfway point – so she was able to collect and wrap. Yay! In the next session, try starting it when she is at the halfway point between the wing and jump and see how she does. I bet we will be able to get it even earlier too!
>>The decel game did feel awkward to me. Struggling with the slow forward part. Again, see note on older dog’s decel gone to hell. We have a handler problem.>>
I thought you did really well with that!!! That is why you can experiment with timing it sooner!Great job on the connection here too, it really helped!
>>Great exercise which I also did with Hoke since it made me realize the decel when I am behind Hoke has gone to hell. See above statement on arousal…
When the dogs are good at this when they are calm, we try to get them stimulated and play this game 🙂 When they are stimulated more, we often need to be earlier on the timing because they are taking bigger strides.
The tight blinds looked good on the first diamond video – she is a tight turning dogs! ! And you were getting more confident with her commitment and starting those blinds earlier and earlier – he blinds at :28 and :35 were GREAT! Nice timing and connection!
Switching sides was harder – both of you were less comfy with the left turn side 🙂 You can start those sooner to connect sooner, which should make it easier for you both.
Nice work with the verbals on the turns too! And also the race tracks looked great – very connected very fast 🙂
The second video had some fun sequences – I think the hardest part for her was on th ecountermotion on the ‘dig dig’ type of wrap turns, when you were trying to leave with countermotion, She would come off the wing as you were leaving, mainly because you were looking at her. So for those countermotion wraps, try to look at the ‘landing’ spot as you leave (without a bar, the other side of the wing). That will help support her commitment as you move away.
At 1:06, you were very early for the blind so she was correct to *not* go to the wing. The blind was finished before she exited the tunnel, so she was a good girl! When there is a handling blooper, you can either keep going as if it was correct (because it was LOL!) or just reward 🙂 As we get into more and more handling games, we can assume all errors are handler errors, so we keep rewarding the pups 🙂
Your timing was better on the next two sequences and she looked great! Yay!
>>I am feeling the clock ticking on this class and there are still a great bunch of games to play.
We have plenty of time – the forum will stay open til the end of May!
>>The best part in these sessions was the improved toy play. If you recall, Liz was running off with the toy & then losing interest in playing. In these sessions I traded her some low value tx for the toy, then she came back to ‘bite’. On our last couple of reos, she let go of the toy waiting for me to pick it up & go back to tugging. I feel like we are working our way through it.>>
Yes! I totally noticed that tugging here was happy and relaxed! And it is great to know she is happy with the trading for the toy. Yay! It takes time to get the play routine really solid, and you were well on your way!
Great job :) Tracy
Hi! The left turns are coming back! Yay!! You can totally start each session with a little reminder by putting out a toy or target to jump start him, then carry on as planned. He looked great here! And the right turns were easy peasy.
And having the toys in the barrel – that was both brilliant and hilarious 😂
>>I had the manners minder at least 10 ft away from the last jump. I thiught even further than
I think having him start closer and using the moving target will totally help. Keep me posted!!!
Great job here 🙂
TracyHoly wow! That looked so fast and so fun!!
Great job with the connection and staying in motion and verbals! And anything that went wrong in the runs is good data to collect for training. The future is very bright 🌞 ✨️
And since you are planning to possibly end up in a different part of the States, I bet you’ll have even more FEO/NFC opportunities so that you can keep expanding on her success here.
Great job!
Tracy
